T Nation

Olbermann on Clinton

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
People look for news that enforces what they already believe or what they want to believe. I honestly can’t understand anyone pretending as if no one in this country actually listens to those shows and believes what they hear.

Once again - that is an opinion you have made up in your head that I am supposed to take as fact.

Until you can prve your baseless position - maybe you should quit trying to ram it down everyone’s throat in lieu of a real position.

It’s old. It’s baseless. And you have yet to do anything but demand that your opinion be taken as fact.
[/quote]

Why would anyone need to PROVE this? That is like asking someone to prove what color grass is. Are you honestly saying you believe NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY takes those shows as a news source?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Why would anyone need to PROVE this? That is like asking someone to prove what color grass is. Are you honestly saying you believe NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY takes those shows as a news source? [/quote]

You keep answering a question no one is asking. It is a red herring.

But, going with your model, is MSNBC a liberal network?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

Why would anyone need to PROVE this? That is like asking someone to prove what color grass is. Are you honestly saying you believe NO ONE IN THIS COUNTRY takes those shows as a news source?

You keep answering a question no one is asking. It is a red herring.

But, going with your model, is MSNBC a liberal network?[/quote]

Haven’t you stated before that nearly every network except for Fox is a liberal network? Aren’t you and others constantly going on about how all media is liberal as if they are out to get poor republicans? Why does it bother you so much when someone calls Fox on being biased? A red herring? By stating that some Americans DO use political talk shows as news sources? How is that a red herring? If they do, and the network has several shows leaning towards one political stance, why does it hurt so much to call the network biased?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

But, going with your model, is MSNBC a liberal network?[/quote]

This was my question - which you haven’t answered.

You base FOX’s bias on the infotainment shows that are on the network.

Fine - by that same rationale, is MSNBC liberal? Is CNN?

Why do you have such a hard time answering a direct question?

It doesn’t matter what my opinion of the media is for purposes of answering the question I asked you - but I actually believe there is bias in straight news reporting, let alone the infotainment. But again, it’s irrelevant to whether or not you think so - which is the question still on the table.

But, as an aside, if all these other networks and other media formats are biased liberal - by virtue of your model of measuring infotainment shows and editorial pages - why would non-conservatives ever bitch and moan about FOX when the liberal media clearly are in the advantage numbers wise?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
People look for news that enforces what they already believe or what they want to believe. I honestly can’t understand anyone pretending as if no one in this country actually listens to those shows and believes what they hear.

Once again - that is an opinion you have made up in your head that I am supposed to take as fact.

[/quote]

What Prof X stated is not opinion, it’s human nature. Pretty simple psychology that most people are well aware of.

[quote]Brayton wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Professor X wrote:
People look for news that enforces what they already believe or what they want to believe. I honestly can’t understand anyone pretending as if no one in this country actually listens to those shows and believes what they hear.

Once again - that is an opinion you have made up in your head that I am supposed to take as fact.

What Prof X stated is not opinion, it’s human nature. Pretty simple psychology that most people are well aware of.[/quote]

You don’t even know what the argument is, kiddo. Nice try, but you need to pay better attention.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

This was my question - which you haven’t answered.[/quote]

Because it isn’t relevant…at all. I don’t even watch much from MSNBC so I wouldn’t know if you could label the network as “liberal” with regards to the news they report on. I ahve seen nothing from them to lead me to that conclusion. I DO watch Fox more often simply because it is on in the clinic every day. Watching their morning NEWS show alone is enough to give anyone that impression.

[quote]
You base FOX’s bias on the infotainment shows that are on the network.

Fine - by that same rationale, is MSNBC liberal? Is CNN? [/quote]

Don’t you say they all are? I do watch CNN and wouldn’t call them biased…not like Fox news is with regards to their news programs or the tone set by the network.

How do you get to call EVERY SOURCE OF MEDIA except for Fox “liberal” but if someone calls Fox “biased towards conservatives” you throw a hissy fit?

[quote]
Why do you have such a hard time answering a direct question?[/quote]

Because your questions ARE NOT RELEVANT TO THE DISCUSSION OF WHETHER FOX NEWS IS BIASED. I will not comment on networks that I barely even watch and know little of. The real question is, why would you want me to comment on networks I don’t watch?

[quote]
It doesn’t matter what my opinion of the media is for purposes of answering the question I asked you - but I actually believe there is bias in straight news reporting, let alone the infotainment. But again, it’s irrelevant to whether or not you think so - which is the question still on the table.[/quote]

Dude, get over yourself. Your questions mean little when the discussion is Fox news.

[quote]
But, as an aside, if all these other networks and other media formats are biased liberal - by virtue of your model of measuring infotainment shows and editorial pages - why would non-conservatives ever bitch and moan about FOX when the liberal media clearly are in the advantage numbers wise?[/quote]

What do their rating have to do with whether they are biased? If anything, that simply shows their bias is worth discussing because of those very same ratings.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:

Because it isn’t relevant…at all. I don’t even watch much from MSNBC so I wouldn’t know if you could label the network as “liberal” with regards to the news they report on. I ahve seen nothing from them to lead me to that conclusion. I DO watch Fox more often simply because it is on in the clinic every day. Watching their morning NEWS show alone is enough to give anyone that impression.[/quote]

You claim that FOX is biased and then provide a standard - the fact that they have right-leaning infotainment - to say why it is biased. I say, “then if a network has a left-wing infotainment show, it is left-wing”, using your standard - and suddenly you have amnesia and all that matters is that you watch FOX alot and the others you don’t?

But what about all the infotainment shows that were so important to you earlier to show bias - because legions of people get their news from those shows? That was your proof earlier - it isn’t anymore?

I couldn’t care less if yuo call FOX biased or not - I don’t even watch the network. All I was interested in was your defense of why FOX was biased - which started off as being a cretain kind of headline, then it moved to the existence of infotainment shows, and now your proof is that you watch it, think it is biased, and we are supposed to take you at your word?

I am getting dizzy trying to keep up with your ever-shifting ‘proof’. But as I said, I don’t care that you call FOX biased - doesn’t affect me one way or other other.

Sure they are - if you say that infotainment shows of a certain political slant show the network’s entire bias, then that should apply to other networks. But you are saying it doesn’t? Oh, it’s relevant, all right - you just don’t want to admit that under your theory, there is more than one liberal network out there.

You don’t want to do that.

See above. Either infotainment shows demonstrate network bias or they don’t - which is the answer? Or will it change it five minutes?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

You claim that FOX is biased and then provide a standard - the fact that they have right-leaning infotainment - to say why it is biased. I say, “then if a network has a left-wing infotainment show, it is left-wing”, using your standard - and suddenly you have amnesia and all that matters is that you watch FOX alot and the others you don’t?[/quote]

How do you relate “amnesia” to me stating that I DON’T WATCH MSNBC? That’s not amnesia (assuming you know what that means). That is me stating I won’t comment on a network I don’t know anything about.

[quote]
But what about all the infotainment shows that were so important to you earlier to show bias - because legions of people get their news from those shows? That was your proof earlier - it isn’t anymore?[/quote]

Read above. Are you even sure what you are arguing now? I do watch CNN so that is the only other one I commented on. Why would I comment on networks I don’t watch?

[quote]
I couldn’t care less if yuo call FOX biased or not - I don’t even watch the network. [/quote]

Then why the fuck are you arguing FOR it?

[quote]
All I was interested in was your defense of why FOX was biased - which started off as being a cretain kind of headline, then it moved to the existence of infotainment shows, and now your proof is that you watch it, think it is biased, and we are supposed to take you at your word?[/quote]

If the subject is that “info-news talk shows” are used as news, the presence of large numbers of these shows on one network shows a bias towards a political viewpoint if those shows express a similar stance. How is this hard to understand?

How about you let someone argue for you who actually watches the damn network?

Can we at least all agree that fox viewers are the most horribly (mis)informed (in addition to their obvious bias)

They are factually the most likely to believe untrue things (I’m sure its not because of any bias)

http://65.109.167.118/pipa/pdf/oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf#search="pipa%20poll%20fox%20media"

Sad :frowning:

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Skystud wrote:

But - I wasn’t aware of any of Olbermann’s writing. Can you post a link to some of his musings? I would like to see if he can indeed write.

http://www.bloggermann.com/

Hmmm…not much different than his rants on TV.

What a sad, sad, bitter, little man. I wonder if he would still be this bitter if ESPN would take him back and let him read box scores. He seems much more suited for that. [/quote]

hmm… i see a guy having a good time doing what he wants to do. i don’t see any sadness or bitterness.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Can we at least all agree that fox viewers are the most horribly (mis)informed (in addition to their obvious bias)

They are factually the most likely to believe untrue things (I’m sure its not because of any bias)

http://65.109.167.118/pipa/pdf/oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf#search="pipa%20poll%20fox%20media"

Sad :([/quote]

interesting find.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

" Variations in Misperceptions According to Source of News
The extent of Americans? misperceptions vary significantly depending on their source of news. Those who receive most of their news from Fox News are more likely than average to have misperceptions. Those who receive most of their news from NPR or PBS are less likely to have misperceptions. These variations cannot simply be explained as a result of differences in the demographic characteristics of each audience, because these variations can also be found when comparing the demographic subgroups of each audience…

…An analysis of those who were asked all of the key three perception questions does reveal a remarkable level of variation in the presence of misperceptions according to news source. Standing out in the analysis are Fox and NPR/PBS–but for opposite reasons. Fox was the news source whose viewers had the most misperceptions. NPR/PBS are notable because their viewers and listeners consistently held fewer misperceptions than respondents who obtained their information from other news sources."

[quote]100meters wrote:
Can we at least all agree that fox viewers are the most horribly (mis)informed (in addition to their obvious bias)

They are factually the most likely to believe untrue things (I’m sure its not because of any bias)

http://65.109.167.118/pipa/pdf/oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf#search="pipa%20poll%20fox%20media"

Sad :([/quote]

That was interesting. I will be using that from now on when someone claims that FOX is competely unbiased and balanced considering their viewers seem to be the most swayed with opinions that don’t line up with truth.

[quote]100meters wrote:
Can we at least all agree that fox viewers are the most horribly (mis)informed (in addition to their obvious bias)

They are factually the most likely to believe untrue things (I’m sure its not because of any bias)

http://65.109.167.118/pipa/pdf/oct03/IraqMedia_Oct03_rpt.pdf#search="pipa%20poll%20fox%20media"

Sad :([/quote]

Are you saying that the tin-foil-hat freaks are Fox News fans? I doubt that.

Your bias is stronger than that of which you accuse Fox.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

How do you relate “amnesia” to me stating that I DON’T WATCH MSNBC? That’s not amnesia (assuming you know what that means). That is me stating I won’t comment on a network I don’t know anything about.[/quote]

Enough of this. When asked about FOX’s bias, you didn’t say “I know it’s biased because I watch it” - you gave specific examples to show the bias.

You got called on those, and now you are trying to pretend that your sole source of showing bias is that you watch FOX, think it is biased, and therefore you are right? Please.

It is not about which networks you watch - it is about applying your standard of showing bias - that the network has infotainment shows of a particular political bent - to other networks. You don’t have to watch MSNBC to know that Olbermann and Matthews have shows on there, and if we use the standard you have flapping your gums about, these networks should be easily liberal.

But you don’t want to say that.

I am not for it - I am for someone making a case that there is bias other than “I watch it and I think it is biased so trust me”. It’s called a discussion board for that reason.

And you keep making a mistake - I am interested in some objectivity on the matter, not people being for or against or against a favorite or despised network.

Exactly. So, by that rationale, MSNBC is a liberal network, whether you have ever watched the damn station or not?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMZ2tT9dNYg&NR

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Professor X wrote:

How do you relate “amnesia” to me stating that I DON’T WATCH MSNBC? That’s not amnesia (assuming you know what that means). That is me stating I won’t comment on a network I don’t know anything about.

Enough of this. When asked about FOX’s bias, you didn’t say “I know it’s biased because I watch it” - you gave specific examples to show the bias.

You got called on those, and now you are trying to pretend that your sole source of showing bias is that you watch FOX, think it is biased, and therefore you are right? Please.[/quote]

I showed one article because I was asked by ANOTHER POSTER for ONE example. If anyone is changing the subject of this thread, it is you alone. You don’t even watch the network yet want to debate how unbiased they are. Quit the bullshit. If you don’t watch the network, quit debating for or against it.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMZ2tT9dNYg&NR
[/quote]

fox news caters to troglodytes ?

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I showed one article because I was asked by ANOTHER POSTER for ONE example. If anyone is changing the subject of this thread, it is you alone. You don’t even watch the network yet want to debate how unbiased they are. Quit the bullshit. If you don’t watch the network, quit debating for or against it.[/quote]

Yes, and the article you posted was a joke for proof.

Second, you are the one that brought up the ‘infotainment-as-proof-of-bias’ - I am just trying to see where it leads. But you intentionally keep up the misdirection because you don’t want to have to admit that by your standard, there is a heckuva lot more liberal media than there is conservative media.

If you had to admit this were so - that there are lots of liberal couterparts to FOX - there would little justification in whining about FOX’s bias. And that would undermine your moaning about it - that is why you don’t want to answer the question.

And whether I watch FOX or not is irrelevant - we aren’t talking football and supporting our teams. We are talking about bias in the media - and since you are clearly not up to the challenge of doing so objectively, quit trying to pass off your half-informed opinions as some kind of objective proof of bias.

As usual, when presented with direct questions, you skitter away and hope nobody notices that you have committed yourself to something you can’t even explain.

Are you kidding me. You don’t know that fox is the biased conservative network and CNN is for the left. MSNBC was somewhere in the midddle until recently.

Haven’t we all got bigger fish to fry. Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction? And where did he get those weapons of mass destruction?

If my memory serves correct, I remember seeing a picture of Rumsfeld shaking hands with our then friend Saddam Hussien. Who gladly took them from us to fight his war with Iran.

Come on. We’re getting our asses kicked in two countries and we are arguing about which truth we believe in from which network.

Focus on the truth, not who spins it.