T Nation

Okay World, Critique my 5/3/1 Plan.

Sunday
Squat- 65%x3, 75%x3, 85%x3 using training max
Shoulder Press- 5/3/1 option 2 (75%, 80%, 85%)
Dips
Chin/Pull up variation

Monday (Active Recovery/Off)
Light cardio/Rowing machine if available
Face Pulls

Tuesday
Power Clean- 5/3/1 option 1 (65%, 75%, 85%)
Deadlift- 3/5/1 option 1
Front Squat- Big Assistance Template

Wednesday (Active Recovery/Off)
Light cardio/Rowing
Face Pulls

Thursday
Bench- 3/5/1 option 2
Incline DB
One-Arm DB Row

Friday
Squat- 3/5/1 option 2
Romanian Deadlift- Big Assistance Template
Lunges

Nearly every day before I go to bed I do self myofascial release with a softball and stretch the hips. Many days I’ll also include external rotations and scapular work.

Obviously there is no ab work. I’m gonna play that by ear. I’ve rarely done any lately and my lifts have gone up fine without it. While I have used good mornings some lately, I feel with the amount of pulling and squatting I’m doing that the low back is getting enough work. If I feel the need to add them back in I’ll put them in the RDL slot.

Any particular reason for that setup?

It seems to me that there’s a of blending action going on. Honestly though I don’t like discouraging stuff like this but knowing myself if I had a program like that it only means that I’m overthinking things. I would put my head down and do one of the programs as written, if not then at least have a reason as to why you are doing things like that.

I have put a lot of thought in it, so I can’t deny that I may be over thinking. I have basically set it up from the info in the books though. My template is actually almost identical to the big assistance programming.

Is it the exercise selection or the different percentages that you don’t like?

My reasoning for the higher ramping percentages is because I don’t plan on doing AMRAP to often except to see where I am on a monthly basis. At first I thought it would be to much to have everything 3/5/1, but I guess that wouldn’t really make a difference whether its 5/3/1 or 3/5/1. I’ll probably change the press and clean to 3/5/1 as well, without any singles of course.

I’ve been doing a 3 day routine for the past 8 months, so this is a little new to me. The good thing is I have over 5 weeks until I actually start any plan. When I get back from my PL meet and then my vacationing, I have 19 weeks till my next meet. the first 3 weeks will be building strength back up with basic linear progression and 5’s. The last 16 weeks is when I plan on incorporating 3/5/1.

I’m not an expert or anything like that; I can only speak from my experiences. The thing that I like about the 5/3/1 is that you pretty much leave the assistance work up to you. One of the things that I noticed though is when I started to predetermine my assistance work things kind of fell apart. What looked good in theory suddenly craps on you when you get under the bar.

You’ve obviously done some research/reading, but what I would suggest is to follow the one of the regular templates for a a cycle and then if you need to make the tweaks. That’s how I feel most people get their variations; they get it by slowly making changes over time, not just putting a variation together and then going into the gym.

like I said, I’m not really one to shoot down ideas for the sake of saying “that’s not the way Wendler did it” especially if it work, just throwing in my 0.02

What do you mean by option 1 and option 2? You mean week 1 and week 2? And is 3/5/1 a typo on Thurs/Fri? No idea what that means either.

The rep schemes are not “options”, they are a progression template. Week 1 is 5’s week, week 2 is 3’s week, and week 3 is 5/3/1 week.

[quote]scj119 wrote:
The rep schemes are not “options”, they are a progression template. Week 1 is 5’s week, week 2 is 3’s week, and week 3 is 5/3/1 week.[/quote]

The way I read it is that option 1 is the regular 10% increase in weight, and option 2 is 5% increase in weight (starting with heavier weight)

[quote]IFlashBack wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:
The rep schemes are not “options”, they are a progression template. Week 1 is 5’s week, week 2 is 3’s week, and week 3 is 5/3/1 week.[/quote]

The way I read it is that option 1 is the regular 10% increase in weight, and option 2 is 5% increase in weight (starting with heavier weight)

[/quote]

My bad, I totally forgot that, apparently I need a 2nd re-read.

As far as the OP, I personally wouldn’t like to squat 2 days after my 5/3/1 squat day, but it might be doable at that percentage. Never know till you try.

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
Sunday
Squat- 65%x3, 75%x3, 85%x3 using training max
Shoulder Press- 5/3/1 option 2 (75%, 80%, 85%)
Dips
Chin/Pull up variation

Monday (Active Recovery/Off)
Light cardio/Rowing machine if available
Face Pulls

Tuesday
Power Clean- 5/3/1 option 1 (65%, 75%, 85%)
Deadlift- 3/5/1 option 1
Front Squat- Big Assistance Template

Wednesday (Active Recovery/Off)
Light cardio/Rowing
Face Pulls

Thursday
Bench- 3/5/1 option 2
Incline DB
One-Arm DB Row

Friday
Squat- 3/5/1 option 2
Romanian Deadlift- Big Assistance Template
Lunges

Nearly every day before I go to bed I do self myofascial release with a softball and stretch the hips. Many days I’ll also include external rotations and scapular work.

Obviously there is no ab work. I’m gonna play that by ear. I’ve rarely done any lately and my lifts have gone up fine without it. While I have used good mornings some lately, I feel with the amount of pulling and squatting I’m doing that the low back is getting enough work. If I feel the need to add them back in I’ll put them in the RDL slot. [/quote]

If it was me, I would choose the same progression for all of your lifts. It makes things a lot less complicated.

So like this:

Squat: 65,75,85% x3
Press: 5/3/1
Dips
Chins

Power Clean 5/3/1
Deadlift 5/3/1
Front Squat

Bench 5/3/1
DB Incline
DB Row

Squat 5/3/1
RDLs
Lunges

It doesn’t really matter if you choose 5/3/1 1st option, 5/3/1 2nd option, or the 3/5/1 powerlifting set up. Just pick one of them and stick to it. I wouldn’t do the heavy singles for power cleans. Also remember that you are still going to extra reps on days that you do heavy singles.

I would also suggest some hard conditioning at least a couple times a week. You could do your ab movements on these days if you choose to incorporate that (I would).

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

Yes! This is how I should have written it the first time to avoid confusion Thanks Chris! I would sprint 1-2 a week but I play a couple of competitive hockey games a week which are pretty damn intense.

One more question…I’m deadlifting around 3x my bw, so should I continue doing a traditional dl, or do say some sort of deficit to take some weight off and help me off the floor. If I get it a few inches off then it never fails to get locked out. I actually was using the snatch grip most weeks for a while, so Im just curious as to what thoughts are on this.

And I’ll only be doing singles with the big 3.

Stick to the main lifts.

As for assistance work, choose the triumvirate template from the book. Vary your assistance work based on how you are feeling, i.e. sets/reps/exercise.

It will not kill if you if one day out of the week instead of doing dips you do heavy push ups or instead of chin ups you do inverted rows, because YOU feel like it.

As for all the myofascial b.s and releasing and garbage. Do not program this stuff. Go to the gym on your off days if you are feeling up too it. Set a timer for 20-30 minutes, get in, get out. I personally say to myself on my off days I will not lift anything heavier than an empty bar (45lbs). Has worked out great.

Do not overthink your shit, lift weights, play hockey, and have fun for God sake.

K.I.S.S

Thanks for the KISS reminder Rudy. I know the foam rolling stuff is controversial, but at the very least it makes me feel better. In fact, I notice I fall sleep easier when I’ve done it.

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:

Yes! This is how I should have written it the first time to avoid confusion Thanks Chris! I would sprint 1-2 a week but I play a couple of competitive hockey games a week which are pretty damn intense.

One more question…I’m deadlifting around 3x my bw, so should I continue doing a traditional dl, or do say some sort of deficit to take some weight off and help me off the floor. If I get it a few inches off then it never fails to get locked out. I actually was using the snatch grip most weeks for a while, so Im just curious as to what thoughts are on this.

And I’ll only be doing singles with the big 3. [/quote]

Cool, playing hockey is much more awesome then regular, boring conditioning.

You definitely could use deficit deads. Just use them instead of your normal deadlifts. Find a roundabout max, take 90%, etc like you normally would.

Hey no problem,

I just find that programming foam rolling and prehab/rehab or restoration workouts is pointless and not fun. One of my favorite restorative workouts is to squat the empty bar for 5 - 1 minute sets. Works great.

As for your routine, I will tell you how I break down my training maybe you can take something from this.

3 days per week, mon-wed-fri. We rotate through a four day schedule.

day 1:
military press -5/3/1
weighted dips - 4 x 8-10
curls - 4 x 8-10 (key for elbow health man, do not neglect)
heavy sit-up - 4 sets
3.5 mile run (I personally have to do it for my job)

day 2:
weighted chin ups - I pick reps, 30-40-50 and do whatever for them. As long as its heavy.
deadlifts - 5/3/1
t-bar rows - 5/3/1
ab wheel - 4 sets
3.5 mile run

day 3:
bench press - 5/3/1
close grip bench - 4 x 8-10
upright row - 4 x 8-10 (super underrated exercise for shoulder/upper back development/health, just dont be a swinging momentum idiot with it)
heavy side bends - 4 sets
3.5 mile run

day 4:
squats - 5/3/1
romanian deadlift - 4 x 8-10
hanging leg raise - 4 sets
3.5 mile run


On any of these days if I do not feel like running the 3.5 miles I will do some heavy ass strongman conditioning. Something fun and enjoyable to me. Such as prowler, farmers walk, or yoke front squat walk (this is fucking retarded on the upper back and core… Especially since we use a chain yoke)

That is just my routine, its based on the basics, lift heavy and hard. You don’t need 1000 exercises to get strong. You need to hammer the basics. Take what you want/need, leave the rest.

k.i.s.s

  • Rudy

Thats a really solid workout. I have thought about including curls again. My elbows have actually been bothering me a little. Don’t know if its because I havent been doing curls or not exactly, but who knows.

And then I might could use some forearm work too. I’ve noticed in hockey that my snap shot has gone to shit since I stopped working my arms. Guess I should find sometime for at least some kind of curl then. I use the hook grip for DL so don’t really worry about that area generally.

I’d actually really love to use a prowler, but I workout at the god awful 24hr fitness…However…they do have some tires outside behind the gym. Hmmm

[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
And then I might could use some forearm work too.
[/quote]

Kroc Rows!

When I did 5/3/1 for all 4 lifts, this was my Training Format.

Day 1
â?¢ Squat 5/3/1
â?¢ Squats - 5 sets @ 70%
â?¢ Various Pulls (Deadlifts, Sumo Pulls, Hack Squats, Deficit Deadlifts/Sumo Pulls) @ 70%
â?¢ Various Abdominal Work (Side Bends, Ab Wheel, Hanging Leg Raises, Ab PDâ??s, Weighted Sit-ups)
â?¢ Other Assistance (Good Morning Variations, Romanian Deadlifts, Leg Curls, Leg Extensions, Hip Machines, Back Extensions, Leg Press, Hip Thrusters)
Day 2
â?¢ Bench Press 5/3/1
â?¢ Barbell Row 5/3/1
â?¢ Weighted Dips
â?¢ Weighted Chins
â?¢ Press 3x10 @ 70%
â?¢ Dumbbell Rows 5x10
â?¢ Ab Work/Back Extensions/Band Work
Day 3
â?¢ Deadlift 5/3/1
â?¢ Squats @ 70%
â?¢ Pulls @ 70%
â?¢ Ab Work/Other/Band Work
Day 4
â?¢ Press 5/3/1 w/ Chins
â?¢ Weighted Chins
â?¢ Bench Press 3x10 @ 70%
â?¢ Dumbbell Rows 5x10
â?¢ Press 3x10 @ 70%
â?¢ Ab Work/Back Extensions/Band Work

It’s a lot of volume yeah, but it seemed to work well for me, the dips/chins i played by ear each day, but tried to do 50 weighted chins each time. Actually I tried running dips on a 5/3/1 setup which was kind of cool, but i prefer sets across with them. And no i didn’t do everything listed every day, this was just my assistance “bank” if you will.

Shit on a midget that is crazy! Even if you dont always do that much. I’d love to try deficit pulls some(snatch grip for me), but I’m trying to stick to the basics. Front squat and RDL go a long ways in helping the DL off the floor themselves. And of course they help the squat too.