T Nation

Ok Ready to Ask for Help...


Hi there,
Name: Willis
Sex: Male
Training: 5 years
Weight: 190 lbs
Height: 6 foot
BF%: 14
Goal: Cutting

Ok there was a little bit about myself in short form. As you can see this is going to be my first cycle. I have been reading tonnes of info from all different sites across the WWW. Now that I am somewhat informed/confused I figure it is time to ask for help.

I am currently looking to cut while maintaining my lean muscle mass. I have cut weight naturally before and lost quite a bit of muscle mass which made me look hollow and sickly. I was 180 lbs at that point. I have put on 10 lbs since then to remedy that situation, but with the extra weight came the extra fat. Now I am looking to try my first cycle. I have been reading on the different types of test, and have determined that I would like to go with test prop because of the least side effects, and the least bloating. I am also going to stack the test with equipoise and winny.

My diet has been cleaned up for a while now so that is no longer an issue. I strength train 2 days a week and high intensity train 2 days a week. My cardio I do 4 times a week at 45 min durations with a couple sprint bouts thrown in every so often. What I would like to know is if my dosage would be adequate, as I do not want to put on size rather stay at 190 lbs and lower bf%. Should the winny be ran the full duration? Here is my proposed cycle:

10 weeks
500 mg/week Test prop
400 mg/week Eq.
50 mg/eod Winny

Will that work? Or does it need some serious revision. So much of the info out there is up and down and all over the map. I know there is no specific answer but a bit of direction would be greatly appreciated. Please help out. I have done a bunch of reading, but like I said there are soooo many opinions. Thanks in advance guys. Flame away!



you disappoint me with all this talk of not wanting to put on more size, shame on you!

The more knowledgeable vets will be here soon :slightly_smiling:


If you are going to run Equipoise you might think about making the cycle a 12 weeker instead of 10 weeks, or just drop the equipoise altogether, since this is your first cycle.

You have to inject the test prop more than once a week, that is why I prefer to use Test E, since you can get away with single week injections.

Is the winstrol in injectable or oral form? injectable clearly being better. if its oral than you definitely cannot run it through the whole cycle.

No AI posted ex: adex, letro, etc....

What type of PCT protocol are you running???


x2 lol


You can not get away with weekly shots of Test Enanthate if you want your blood levels to stay anywhere close to stable. 2x per week minimum.

Injectable winstrol still stresses the liver. I am not sure if that's what you meant by "if its oral than you definitely cannot run it through the whole cycle". It sounds like you are saying that injectable winstrol is better because it's injected and oral winstrol cant be run througout because it will stress the liver. Niether form should be run throughout.

To the OP
I would drop the EQ and run 400mg of prop per week. If your diet is as good as you claim (which I doubt based on your weight and BF%) that will be enough to keep you in an anabolic state while cutting. Inject the prop ED or EOD at the most. Have an AI on hand. Use a SERM pct.

My recomendation would be to lower your bodyfat percentage by gaining more lean mass, not lose fat. The extra lean mass will further increase your metabolism allowing you to stay leaner after the cycle. Since you won't be putting on a ton of muscle over what your natural limit is it shouldnt be difficult to maintain any new mass gains.


You can get away with single weekly shots of test E and still make good gains, although I do use test suspension throughout the week, whoops my bad :slight_smile:
Injectable Winstrol does stress the liver but not compared to the oral


Of course you can get good gains with weekly shots. People also report making gains shooting sustanon every 7-10 days. Doesn't mean that it is optimal practice. If you like shooting test E once a week that's fine, I couldn't care less, but keep the broknowledge to yourself and don't give out that sort of advice to someone about to start a first cycle. A drug with a ~5 day half life should not be shot less often than twice per week if one desires stable blood levels. Stable blood levels = less side effects.

Care to prove that injectable winstrol is easier on the liver than oral? Here's a hint: you can drink injectable winstrol. I assume we are talking about winstrol tablets and water based injectable winstrol. Oil based injectable winstrol is not that common; is that what you are talking about?


As far as I understand, the liver still has to contend with the 17-methyl with injectable winny, but to a lesser degree than with the oral form, as there's no first pass... it's already in the bloodstream.


1 have you ever used Winny
2. have you ever SHOT winny

now no mater what drugs you take your body will look the way you train.

example if you wan to get huge then you train heavy and eat huge.
you can take the same drugs you used to get huge and you can get lean
just run more and eat.....well you get the idea.

drugs will not make you do anything or grow any way.
they will just make recovery eaiser and the training a bit more productive


Would be nice if more people chose this route instead of starving themselves to reach a lesser goal.


Well thank you for your help guys. I have been re evaluating my cycle and I think I may just stick with test E at 400mg/week. Being that it is my first cycle I would like to know how my body reacts to the staple of all AAS use. As for my diet it has been cleaned up I just have not been training a whole bunch lately because of work stuff. Now that that is all over it is GO time.

Do you higher beings agree that this is probably a better place to start? I will run the test E for 12 weeks at 400mg/week by itself and see how that goes. As to lowering BF% by increasing LBM that is my goal. I like the "size" i am at now just want to convert some fat into lean muscle. Thoughts?


Stick with 10 weeks. Preferably less and use a frontload.


I would even go as far as 8 weeks frontloading with 1000mg first shot and 250mg e3d after
adex ed at appropriate doses..

save the winny and eq for future cycles.
and do not inject the winny, its a very painful, opt to drinking it instead.


So do a one time shot of 1000mg of test E and then 250 E3D after that for 8 weeks then in your opinion? What type of PCT should i be using with a beginner cycle like this? Nolva as needed? Thanks for the advice.


Standard SERM PCT is fine.


Split your frontload into several sites (2 at least) for more comfort.