T Nation

Ok, I know this is rehashing some old info - JMB can ya help?

But I have done a search and the posts/responses there don’t really seem to fit, so I thought I would ask for a clear example for myself.

I understand that with a slow metabolism I should take 12x my bodyweight and that is my maintenance level for calories. 230x12=2760. If I want to lose weight, subtract 500=2260.

I’ve been bouncing between 232-234 pounds for over a month at 6 feet 1", at least 25% bodyfat. I am a chunky butt.

Is it just that simple? I’ve been keeping a food log RELIGIOUSLY and have been getting 2200-2300 cals and not lost a pound over the last month. I was told that I needed to UP those calories because my gym activity creates an additional need, so I should actually add at least 500 more calories.

So for one week I went up to 2500-2700 calories and gained 2 lbs. So now I'm back down to 234. The added weight might have been water, or fat, or snot for all I know.

I’m defiantely not losing any weight at 2200-2300 cals per day. Is this because I am still taking in too little, or because that is my maintenance? I’ve gotten so darn frazzled I can’t think straight about it. I need someone to tell me what to do :slight_smile:

You might want to try adding like 200-300 calories instead, as opposed to 500, and see where that happens. - PJ

Ok let’s take care of this. The 12X is a starting point for *most people.
I have a slow metabolism so I find I need to drop my calories a lot more than the avarage “T-Man.” I used to try 12x body weight and frankly I wasn’t changing. (Even though when bulking I was up to 5K calories per day) I finally consulted with Bill Roberts who advised me to try 8X body weight. In 12 weeks I have gone from over 20%bf at 275lbs to around 13% at 230lbs.

***If you do everything I tell you to do YOU CAN’T FAIL. (in fact I’d put up $100 to that)

Since you have a slow metabolism lets try your bodyweight times 8 for calories OK? That Brings us to 1,840 calories a day. KEEP A FOOD LOG MAKE SURE YOU NEVER GO OVER 1,900 CALORIES PER DAY.

DIET:
Consume 6 meals.

Meals 1-3:
30G Protein
50G carbs
almost no fat
(*Post workout meal should be one of these meals-prefrably Surge!)

Meals 4-6: 30g Protein near 0 carbs 10-20g fat

(*A good choice for these meals would be lean meat, chicken, protein shake mixed with 1tbs Flax Seed oil)

TRAINING: Weight Train 3-5 times per week. Train each body part once per week HEAVY & HARD. 2-3 Exercises for 8-12 sets per body part. After your workout do 30min. of cardio at a moderate pace. (Go home & have a post workout shake like Surge or a Myoplex with some extra carbs like Ultra Fuel.)

SUPPLEMENTS: Use MD-6, Twin EPA Fish Oils and or at least 1 TSP of FLax Seed Oil Daily.
YOU NEED A STRONG ANTI CATABOLIC WITH CALORIES THIS LOW!!!
Personally I use 2,000mg of Testosterone a week. I don’t think steroids are your game so use ANDROSOL & Maybe TRIBEX as well. (If you don’t do this you WILL lose muscle.)

It may be good to go 2 weeks with this and then for 1 week eat your maintinace calories to make sure you don’t shut down your metabolism.-IF I WAS YOU I’d SAY FUCK IT & GO AT LEAST 8 WEEKS WITH THIS PLAN.

Take your time remember even if you do everything right you will likely only start seeing changes after 3-4 weeks.

Get your body fat % checked every 3 weeks or so. The FACT is at your size this has to work. It is Thermodynamics & if this does not work the Laws of Physics don’t “work.” either.
You will burn more calories than you take and that is the bottom line determining factor of losing weight.
This WILL work. Let us know how it goes.

Thanks a bunch for the input. What you suggest is surprisingly close to what I’m doing food-wise and workout wise (just not calorie wise). Right now I get 5-6 meals a day, which is 40-50% protein, 30-40% carb, and 20-30% fat, depending on how I mix it up ( I try to eat FOOD and limit my MRPs to 2 scoops of surge post-workout and 2 scopps of advanced protein preworkout). Workout is the Men’s Health Belly Off plan, which is 2 upper body superset and 2 lower body circuit days. On the upper body days you go 30 minutes moderate cardio and 2 non-workout days you do interval training. It’s working great so far on endurance and strength - we’ll see about the weight loss.

Now that I’m at the 6 month mark in weight training, I’ve got the MD6, T2, Methoxy-7, and Androsol on order actually. (Yes, I am biotest’s whore and so far I don’t mind!) So I should be able to prevent catabolism when I get the stuff. I’ll keep you posted!
Greg

Everything should work out fine.
Follow the reccomendations exactly. By following the meal plan (Which is what both John Berardi & Bill Roberts have personally reccomended to me) you will take atvantage of the Insulin levels and insulin sensitivity as it changes throughout the day.
1-3 P & C meals ,
4-6 P & F meals

I think you guys are over looking one small detail. When you are 230lbs@25% body fat, your lean body mass (the mass that is metabolically active) is only about 175 lbs. Try calculating your calorie needs on that and see what happens.

Remember to calculate your calorie needs by the “Don’t Diet” approach and compare the two numbers before making any drastic changes.

Check out Massive Eating Part 1 and use that to calculate your overall needs in respect to calories first. Peace.

Uh, thats basically what I did Rob. Did you noruce the Protein intake is about 180gms daily? Because his LBM is 175?
That is how I design all diets.

Hey man, listen, your thread hadn’t been posted by the MOD when I posted mine. I make it a point to never give advice that has already been given. Peace.

you should not act so arogant! hetyey225

Well HetYey I was not being arrogant I was pointing out that I indeed was on the same thinking path as the fellow above.
Then again we can’t all be natural and gain 25lbs of muscle while dropping 50lbs of fat in 5 weeks like you!
(YES HE SAID IT!)

you realy can’t read, can you?