T Nation

Oh Shi... Muscles!?

That’s what I will be saying soon… :wink:

The rough:
Month #1: Velocity Diet
Month #2: ?Velocity Diet transition?
Month #2.5-6: Anabolic
Month #7: Velocity Diet

Upon the advice of some really smart peoples, I’m going to stay on the AD longer than what I had intended to fully recoup my metabolic function.

I started 31/03/08, taking measurements and progress pictures every Monday afterwards.

Here is the Velocity Diet nutrition and workout breakdown…

Supps: BCAA’s, stim-free thermo, creatine, chromium, multi (can’t consider whey a supplement if they are my main nutrition source, now can I?)

BCAA: 1 serving with both ‘snack’ meals. 2 serving extra on workout days taken with pre and PWO shakes.
Thermo: In AM before breakfast, at lunch, before bed. 1 serving extra on WO days with pre-WO shake.
Creatine: 2 tsp. a day

[u]Non-workout Day:[/u]

Targets/limits:
1612.5 kcal goal
<75g Carb
~50g Fat
~250g Protein

Meal A x5
1 serving flax meal
2 serving whey
298 kcal; 8g Fat; 9g Carb; 51g protein

Meal B x1
3 fish caps
15 almonds
134 kcal; 12.1g Fat; 3.6g Carb; 3.8g Protein

Actual Nutrition:
1624 kcal
48.6g carbs
52.1g fat
258.8g protein

Activity:
Moderate 45+ minute walk in the AM, before first meal.
Light jog for 20 minutes in the afternoon.

Note: 12 over on calories, no big deal. Timing of the meals is one every 2-2.5 hours. All the A meals come first.

[u]Workout Day:[/u]

Targets/limits:
1935 kcals
<100g carbs
~50-75g fat
~241-324g protein

Meal A x1:
1 serving ‘fast’ whey
2 serving ‘slow’ whey
1 serving flax meal
454 kcal; 81g protein; 9.5g fat; 15g carbs

Meal B x1:
2 serving flax meal
1 serving ‘slow’ whey
275 kcal; 33g protein; 11.5g fat; 14g carbs

Meal C x1:
1 serving ‘fast’ whey
1 serving ‘slow’ whey
1 serving flax meal
319 kcal; 54g protein; 8g fat; 11g carbs

Meal D x2:
2 serving ‘fast’ whey
1 serving ‘slow’ whey
1 serving flax meal
433 kcal; 78g protein; 9.5g fat; 13g carbs

Timing:
A -> B -> C -> D* -> workout -> D*

*Preworkout and PWO I have 1 serving of my pure whey shake. The other parts of meal D refer to my actual ‘meals’. I basically included it all at once to make for easier counting.

Activity:
45+ minute AM walk
20 minutes for warm-up and cool-downs
~120 minutes of heavy lifting: Squats, cleans, deads, bench, press and 2 other focusing exercises.

I think I have most of the pegs rounded, please give me some feedback about anything! Motivation, encouragement, tips, etc.

[u]Training Program[/u]
Nothing really special. Keeping with the O-lifts and still going to try for personal records, although not by much. The premise is based on Rippetoes, with a couple additional exercises thrown in each week to focus on different aspects of the body more closely. I try to use 4-5 warmup sets before each exercise per recommendations in Starting Strength (i.e. 2x5 @40% 1rm; 1x5; 1x3; 1x2; 3x5@90-100% 1rm.)

A day
Squats; Bench; Deads; 1 pair of added exercises

B day
Squats; M. Press; Cleans; 1 pair added exercises

Additional exercises
DB Flyes & Arnold Presses
Hammer Curls & Preacher Curls
DB Side Bends & Good Mornings
Leg Curl & Leg Ext
Shrugs & Bent Over BB Rows
(Decline the press) & Bent Arm Pullover & DB Flyes
Tricep Kickbacks & Dips & Calf Raises
Crunch & Hypers
Concentration Curls & Reverse Curls
Forearm Curl & Reverse Forearm Curl
Prone Trap Raise & Dips
Cubans & Rear Lateral Raise

Notes: Totally reworked my additional exercise plan after reading a bit about muscle confusion. I will stick with 1 pair or alteration for a full week instead of the continual cycling of before.

[u]Starting Measurements[/u]

Height:
5’11.0" (1.80 m)
Weight:
228 lb (103.6 kg)
Waist:
46" (116.84 cm)
Bodyfat:
32% (sounds about right, I have a rotundness about me… in all directions)

Thighs:
24.75" (62.87 cm)
Calves:
17.13" (43.51 cm)
Chest:
46" (116.84 cm)
Forearms:
13.5" (34.29 cm)
Arms:
14.13" (35.89 cm)
Hips:
43.5" (110.49 cm)
Neck:
18-21" (don’t know if I’m hitting the right spot.)

From what I’ve read about the anabolic diet, you shouldn’t gain much fat. So you might be able to go to
Month #1: Velocity Diet
Month #2: Finishing Velocity Diet (I think your supposed to do a 2 week finishing period, I’m not sure though)
Month #2.5: Anabolic
Month #3: Anabolic
Month #4: Anabolic

I wouldn’t hop back on a crazy diet like the v-diet for at least 4-5 months after the first time. Your metabolism’s going to slow down, and you won’t see the same results.

Yeah I was worried about that hockechamp. I’ll check into the 2 week finishing period, that’s the first time I heard of it. I do know there is also a 2 week adjustment phase to the AD, maybe that is where you get the 2 week finishing period from?

Thank you both.

Day #1
I was measuring my flax wrong all fucking day, so now I have to bite the bullet and chug that nasty shit down with my last shake (like 5 Tbsp worth!)

I’ve got somewhat good tasting whey, not sure how I’ll feel about it after a while, but for now it’s doing the job.

Had a workout today. Set PRs on my deads and squat but failed to increase my bench. I chalk the latter up to using improper form the last month (too much flaring before, now I’m at a good 45 degree angle.) Almost breaking 200 with my squats now! Some may not find that impressive but it is still a milestone worth noticing for me. Hopefully if I can lose 20 pounds that will be an extra 20 pounds I can put on my squat - great boost!

Here are the exercises and reps for today.

[u]Workout #1[/u]

Squatz
2x5@45
1x5@115
1x3@145
1x2@175
3x5@195!PR

Bench
2x5@45
1x5@95
1x3@135
1x2@170
3x5@165 (no change in ability)

Deadlifts
2x5@45
1x5@135
1x3@185
1x5@225!PR

DB Flyes
2x5@12.5
1x5@15
3x5@25

Arnold Presses
2x5@15
1x5@20
1x5@25
3x5@30

Notes: My first time in a while doing DB flyes and AP’s, so I went light. I’ll add another 5 pounds to them on Wednesday.


I’ve also decided to rework the focusing since I don’t want to get muscle confusion. I will work the DB flyes and AP’s all this week, then I will move on to another pair.

Let me know what you guys think. As of right now the thing giving me problems is the bench. Should I give it one more chance at increasing before taking countermeasures? I’ve been stuck at 165-170 the last 3 times.

Are you really dead lifting more than you squat?

And what type of squats are those?

[quote]F3M4 wrote:
Are you really dead lifting more than you squat?

And what type of squats are those?[/quote]

Is this supposed to be abnormal? I’ve always heard(and had) deadlifts should be, or usually are, slightly heavier than squats.

[quote]F3M4 wrote:
Are you really dead lifting more than you squat?

And what type of squats are those?[/quote]

Normal barbell squats, A2G. And Yeah, I’ve always had a stronger back than thighs.

I’m not sure where I found it, probably on T-Nation, but there was a specific order of which exercise should be heavier than the next. It went Squats > Deads > Bench > Press. That’s not always a rule though, especially for beginners like me.

My deads and squats could have been even, but my form on squats was wrong, my stance wasn’t wide enough and my feet weren’t angled enough and that caused some pain in my hips (basically as I was going down my knees would travel inward, putting too much flex on my hip.) I was struggling before at 185 last friday. Now I’m already planning on going up to 205-215 next workout.

I’m going to have a personal trainer in there Wed. to observe some deads and my other exercises to insure proper form on them all.

Theres no way in hell i could deadlift as much as I squat but maybe thats just me…

Day #3
The whey… it is tasting shittier with each serving!

My PT stopped in and looked at my forms, minor corrections here and there but otherwise OK. Praised my squat and deads form and couldn’t believe I’d never done those exercises before a month ago. I attribute that to Rippetoe’s well-written book.

Still feeling the energy. Brought squats up to 215 today but without a spotter I didn’t want to risk that last set, so I dropped to 205. (pats self on back, hell yeah, getting there pound by pound.)

Cleans are up to 135. They destroyed me by the time I was done, and that felt great. Next Monday I’ll see about doing 145-155.

Presses are at 100 (and no I’m not arching or throwing with my legs, in case you’re concerned.)

Did some bent over BB rows and trying to stay in proper form was harder than the lifts I think. Did 105 on them with good form (straight back, knees bent, pulling away and down with my scapula.) I think I can up them about 20-30 next time.

45 degree Prone lat raises… they’re my weakest isolation right now. I was at about 17.5-20 per DB last time, but this time I dropped it down to 10 so I could slow down the motion and ensure I’m not just swinging my arms. I tend to shake a little while doing these.

[quote]Theres no way in hell i could deadlift as much as I squat but maybe thats just me…[/quote]I think it is just you man. DL’s can be more than everything else up to a point, until specialization or injuries hamper it. Depends on the person, like you said.

[quote]cdelozier wrote:
Day #3
The whey… it is tasting shittier with each serving!
[/quote]

You do realize that you need a more complete protein than whey for the V-Diet, right?

And what on Earth is this thread doing on the Supp section?

Not to put you down or anything, but if I embarked on a similar journey as yours, I’ll probably suffer tremendously. If you’re a self-described newb, then you should be able to get away with a lot in the beginning. Lift heavy and eat clean. No need for that two-cycles of V-Diet. But that’s just me.

[quote]lixy wrote:
cdelozier wrote:
Day #3
The whey… it is tasting shittier with each serving!

You do realize that you need a more complete protein than whey for the V-Diet, right?

And what on Earth is this thread doing on the Supp section?

Not to put you down or anything, but if I embarked on a similar journey as yours, I’ll probably suffer tremendously. If you’re a self-described newb, then you should be able to get away with a lot in the beginning. Lift heavy and eat clean. No need for that two-cycles of V-Diet. But that’s just me.[/quote]

this is also the nutrition board.

and i completely agree with your last statement

[quote]lixy wrote:
cdelozier wrote:
Day #3
The whey… it is tasting shittier with each serving!

You do realize that you need a more complete protein than whey for the V-diet, right?[/quote]

Yeah. Like what? Protein from casein among other things? That’s what I am referring to when I say slow shake.

This is where all the others are. I don’t understand what the problem is. If a mod wants to move it, they will.

Yeah, that is just you. And I had been eating clean. I am on V-Diet because I’ve read the principles of it and feel it would benefit me. I’m sorry you think you’d suffer, but you don’t exactly say why, so that isn’t really a big help to me more like a downer.

Are you a beginner? If so, you have nothing to “cut” down to, and you’re wasting time (and money) doing the V-Diet. Why don’t you eat and lift big and then do the V-diet after you gain 30 or 40 pounds?

Wait nevermind, I now see your body stats. The V-Diet is not for you. Carb cycling with very clean eating is for you, hoss.

EDIT: And it’s probably not a good idea for a beginner to be “basing” his workouts on professionally made programs, rather, just DO the professionally made programs.

I can handle it. And I think that’s why a lot of people steer beginners away from messing around with tried and true methods because beginners are notoriously uneducated on many things and they can’t handle it. But I make it a point to study things carefully. And I have done that with this current diet.

“The V-Diet is not for you.” I’m sure there were people telling Brock this same thing with his Fat Fast diet. Then who is it for exactly? I never saw any restrictions as to who could benefit from it. Furthermore the diet is based on a diet based on a diet geared towards losing weight safely for obese people - I fail to see how I don’t qualify in that regard!

And I feel good about messing with Rippetoe’s because for one I am not adding much and secondly I’m saving them for after the big three of the day.

This thread isn’t even for you all to tell me the v-diet isn’t for me. If I wanted to know that I would ask that. No I don’t care if you go out of your way to tell me that I’m wrong for picking up on this forum’s treasured diet. At least tell me why other than “I’m a beginner.”

Thanks for the negativity (and that’s all I see, negativity posing as advice.) I still haven’t seen any good arguments other than “I think you shouldn’t do this because the typical way is to…” Well, if people didn’t do things atypically then the v-diet probably wouldn’t exist.

It would be interesting to know whether the toxics are simply spouting dogmatic truths at me or thinking for themselves. It seems to me dogmatic and run of the mill advice handed out so often becomes a supposed truism, especially in the case where moderately experienced people cannot fathom a beginner starting off any differently than how they did.

I think the V-Diet has a given element in it that participants don’t have years and years of metabolically damaging atrophy and shitty diets behind them. That perhaps there is lean body mass underneath the flaccid adiposity that will actually be the furnace to burn away the fat while you severely restrict whole foods. Bone and organ underneath fat do not “burn” anything. Eat clean, lift big, and run, and you’ll lose weight.

You don’t need to label yourself either with “skinny fat hardgainer” or “FFB” or any other nonsense. Read the basic principles (also all over this site) of nutrition and save the V-Diet for when you just have that little bit of stubborn fat left to go, or perhaps you’ve plateau’d after knocking off a large chunk of gut.

Just sayin’, you clearly know best.

[quote]msd0060 wrote:
I think the V-Diet has a given element in it that participants don’t have years and years of metabolically damaging atrophy and shitty diets behind them. That perhaps there is lean body mass underneath the flaccid adiposity that will actually be the furnace to burn away the fat while you severely restrict whole foods. Bone and organ underneath fat do not “burn” anything. Eat clean, lift big, and run, and you’ll lose weight.

You don’t need to label yourself either with “skinny fat hardgainer” or “FFB” or any other nonsense. Read the basic principles (also all over this site) of nutrition and save the V-Diet for when you just have that little bit of stubborn fat left to go, or perhaps you’ve plateau’d after knocking off a large chunk of gut.

Just sayin’, you clearly know best.
[/quote]

I get your sarcasm in the last sentence. Well done.

BUT what you still haven’t done is shown that v-diet won’t be effective. Maybe it won’t be AS effective as if I were teeming with muscle, but that doesn’t mean it will not be effective at all.

If anyone wants to make a wager with me, I’ll be glad to put my money where my mouth is. If I do not lose 20 pounds at the end of my 4 week period (which, according to msd, can only be fat loss since I have nothing lean to power the burning or even lose) I will buy whoever accepts this challenge a tub or two of their protein powder of choice, anywhere from $50-75.

I would keep such a crazy ass expensive diet as an ace in the hole for plateau.

You CANNOT fuck up right now. Clean eating, lifting big, and some cardio and it will fall off you. When you plateau, which you will, you play the v-diet card. At the beginning, it’s too easy.

You’ve never eaten right or exercised right, and you’re going into the highly specialized plan. It just doesn’t make sense. If you want to learn about computers, you don’t jump into Javascript programming books.

I think you’d be better off on the V-diet after at least a couple months of just eating right and lifting, to condition your body to what you’re about to do to it, at the least. Big macs to liquid protein and flax? C’mon.

I’m telling you this having also lost 80 pounds in my own odyssey, not just spouting shit.

some people just aren’t open to suggestions, and telling them they’re wrong reinforces their will to follow through on what they want to do.