T Nation

Off T4 Hormones, Need Thyroid Booster Supp?


#1

Couple years ago, I had a slight drop in my TSH and T4/T3 levels due to extreme weight fluctuations.
I was put on a low dose of T4, and now, I have discussed doctor about stopping the treatment.
I have read research saying that natural levels can be depressed for up to 3 months, and that some supplements can be used to boost production.

I am aware the medications HCG and Clomid can aid in recovery but I am interested in a natural supplement that works well.

Any ideas ? Many thanks !


#2

You should re-post this in the TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy) forum. A lot of guys there are knowledgeable about adrenals/hormones, including thyroid issues. They helped me with a hypothyroid issue.

That being said, your post is too general - they will (rightfully) ask for your specific TSH, Free T3 and Free T4 results.. impossible to recommend anything without that basic first level (and they will likely ask for other test results after those as well).

Not being a buzz kill but can't help that general of a comment. Why do you think you no longer need Thyroid supplementation?


#3

Hi Jason,

we'd be glad to help, but do need some additional details. Can you please scan through the sticky thread "Advice for New Guys?" and provide the additional details requested?


#4

Yes yesm I posted details but they got deleted in the double post I did.
Anyway:
About 2.5 years ago, after training really really hard and eating huge amounts of food, I almost doubled my bodyweight to 235lbs with about 15-17% bodyfst, people did not recognize me anymore.
I assume this caused something to my Thyroid, because I started feeling really tired all of the time, like a bear, so I went to the doctor for checkups.
The TSH was 5.5, the T4 was on the bottom third, and the FT3 was on the upper third.
I had no significant antibodies, nor viruses that may cause a slow thyroid.

Doctor said it was borderline(tsh), and since I was showing some symptoms of hypo, I started taking 100mcg of Eltroxin (going up from 50).
Since then, my TSH has been 2.0 with almost no changes so FT4 of T3 levels.
I was however feeling the difference (which could be from the weightloss oriented routine and diet as I am now 200lbs with 7%) so, I kept on taking the 100mcg dose.

I now have the chance (being off season) to test what happens if I stop taking this again.
This might have been a temporary thyroid issue related to training or diet and I feel I must check if I can go without taking all those pills every morning.
I am wondering what is the best way to go off the 100mcg of T4.
Should I taper down ? Use supplements like Now Thyroid Energy ? Use Clomid ? In what gaps should I take the Endocrine bloodwork from now on ?

More info related to the topic: When I had the high TSH levels, I also had very very low amounts of Sodoium and Iron, I never really took special care of it, Just eating some pickles here and there and increasing egg and meat intake.

I get enough Iodine for sure, and about copper levels - unknown.
I routinely take Mag and Zinc.
What else is related that you need to know to help me kickstart my Thyroid naturally ?

I need to add that I have zero family history of Hypo, so I believe I can pull this off with your help, covering all the factors affecting a tired gland.

I appreciate the support !!!!


#5

first best stop is to read stopthethyroidmadness.com/things-we-have-learned/

TSH > 1 means that your T4 meds weren't doing their job.

High TSH + High Free T3 could mean that you probably had high Reverse T3 blocking your Free T3 from working causing the higher TSH. Taking extra T4 in that case is normally not helpful and can cause complications.

intense training can strain cortisol which in turn can't provide enough support to your thyroid and your body starts converting T4 to Reverse T3.

please read: stopthethyroidmadness.com/t4-only-meds-dont-work/ and thyroid-rt3.com

you really need more tests to see what is happening with your system like TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, 8am Cortisol, and ferritin. Testing for D25-OH never hurts as well.

If your TSH is at 2, you should be able to reduce your T4 meds by half every week for two weeks.

very possible, but extremely unlikely unless you are supplementing it directly. 150mcg RDA Guidelines do not equal ideal levels. some people take 12.5mg Iodine daily + 100mcg Selenium and some iron supplement to support their thyroid.

what are your waking body temperatures? (please read the blood test sticky for more info on body temp and what they mean)

good luck.


#6

Thanks for your reply !!
My morning temps are normal, I remember I took an average of 5 days and it was quote alright, although I dont remember the exact reading. Wasn't low for sure.

Ferritin and Iron were both low I recall. I think almost off the chart low.
The papers are somewhere with the exact results, I must dig and find them.

So, are you suggesting to do a bloodtest now, while on 100mcg, then get the results, drop to 50mcg T4 while fixing the minor stuff like Iron, copper and sodium, then losing the thyroiod meds altogether and see what happens ?

What is the order of operations here from where I am at right now.

I browsed the thyroidmadness site before and got the impression that it's run by a bunch of obsessed hypothyroid women. However the articles do make sense.
Still, is there a way to check if I don't need any meds at all ? I know optimally I would need Armour and all that, I've looked at the stuff when I first got the prescription for T4, but I would rather do everything in my power to not need these drugs in my life, or at least try to get it off my chest.


#7

and by normal you mean 97.3-97.6 immediately upon waking
and if you took your daily average temperature at 9am, 3pm, and 7pm it averaged at 98.6?

the sttm has better information then 95% of doctors out there.

should you test now before making a change? that depends. when was your last test? what were the actual results? what are your current symptoms?

testing for RT3, ferritin, D25-OH, 8am Cortisol, etc. can all be helpful before you make major changes, and can let you know what the actual impact is if you follow up and retested 3 months after you make certain changes.

what should you start taking, or stop taking all depends as well on your test results (assuming the correct tests were run). some benefit from iodine, selenium, ferritin. You have admitted low iron, so have you been supplementing that. Vit C helps iron absorption.


#8

Are you sure this would be indicative of high Rt3? My understanding is that ft4 has two pathways: t3 and Rt3. If t4 is low, and t3 is high, where is the Rt3 actually coming from?


#9

Hmm thanks PureChance, I ordered Iodine, Selenium, Iron and altantic sea salt.
I stopped taking any dose of Eltroxin, I will finish all the above 3 bottles and then take the tests again (in 2 months)

While doing that I will monitor bodyweight and body temp as well as other symptoms of Hypo.

Does that sound OK ?

By the way, some people say that fish oil and damage thyroid function.
Is this true ?


#10

Good question VT - t4 could be low because it is being converted to FT3 and RT3. I am just trying to reconcile High TSH with High Free T3. High RT3 is the only possibility that I can think of since he stated that the two thyroid antibody tests came back negative. No actual test results though to confirm that

plus high RT3 is easy to confirm via a simple blood test.

how much iodine are you taking?

never heard about fish oil damaging thyroid function. Any link to the article or medical publication?


#11

I ordered the Life Extension Sea Iodine containing 1000mcg of natural iodione per cap
Is this alright ?

Will confirm RT3 in about a month when I take recovery checkup test #1.
If this turns out to be the problem though, am I stuck with RT3 forever ?
Or is this also considered a thyroid problem that requires T3 as treatment ?

BTW regarding the antibodies, I remember a score that was in the middle of the chart.
Meaning some antibodies were there(if thats how the test works?), the score wasn't a straight ZERO, but according to doc that was normal.

Does that mean a positive ?

So, do you like this recovery stack I ordered ?
Anything else ? Should I get some Copper ?
Any special Diet or training guidelines for the recovery period ?

EDIT:
Average temperature for today: 98.6.
Morning was 97.8, then 5 more measures at 98.6+ , that is 2 days off the pills.
When should I start noticing the temp decrease upon withdrawal ?
So far 2 days and I just broke my BB Bench PR, doing 10 reps with 110lbs each hand.
Low metabolism rules :slight_smile:


#12

LEF also sells a D3/sea iodine combo that you might find more convenient.


#13

That's alright, I take Now D3 5000IU per day. Im not sure that this combo can match the d3 dose I get from the NOW ?


#14

It's 5,000IU as well as the 1mg of sea iodine you are already taking. Maybe ten bucks for a two month supply if you're a member.

Not saying you need to take it, I just like minimizing the amount of pills I have to swallow, is all. Plus, I trust the quality of LEF more than most other brands.


#15

1000mcg = 1mg
some (including myself) are taking 12.5mg Iodine (= 12,500mcg). Not saying you should cause I am still researching the whole iodine thing, but I think its working so far.

as a side note, get all of your tests results in your own hands. look over them, research them, double check what your doctor is telling you, compare them to the ideal levels posted in the blood test sticky, etc.

who is more invested in your health - you or your doctor? who is going to pay the consequences if something is overlooked - you or your doctor? so should you rely 100% on what your doctor tells you, or should you get your results in your own hands and double check everything?

rt3 can be fixed by correcting the underlying symptoms that lead to high RT3 (possibly low cortisol, low ferritin, excess T4, etc. etc. etc.). yes T3 only meds can help reduce RT3.

more info at thyroid-rt3.com

IF you were overdosing on T4 then you shouldn't see any sort of temp dip by stopping.


#16

Aha, so basically I have nothing to lose from dropping that T4 and hopping on a recovery supplement protocol ? At worse, if the levels come back low soon, I'll just research the better options such as Armour etc.

Good.

Got you on the doctor thing, I totally understand that most of them couldn't care less if you aren't optimal and living 100% well.

So, 1-2mg per day should suffice ? 12MG is getting quite expensive :slightly_smiling:


#17

Regadring the fish oil damaging the thyroid:
www.raypeat.com article section.

"Scattered studies have found that polyunsaturated fats inhibit the proteolytic enzymes involved in the digestion of food, in the removal of clots, in the formation of thyroid hormone, and many other essential physiological processes. "

and

"Later, many experiments showed that the polyunsaturated fats slowed metabolism by profoundly interfering with the function of the thyroid hormone and the cellular respiratory apparatus."

Can anybody track the source of these claims ?


#18

This probably doesn't need to be said, but I'm going to say it anyway--DO NOT implement advice on medications that you see here without first discussing with your doctor...if he is still difficult and insistent that you blindly follow his advice, but can't give any good reason as to why, then make your own decision....but make him aware of what it is you're doing!!!

Most of us on the 12.5 mg/day plan are taking Ioddoral...one pill is 12.5 mg and an entire bottle is dirt cheap and lasts for months...hard to find right now because of all the idiots on the west coast buying it up due to the nuclear incident 6k miles away in Japan, but you can still probably find some...I boguht mine off Amazon....


#19

For every study that you show me saying fish oil is bad, I can produce probably a thousand that say its the best thing you can possibly put into your body...you can make your own decisions, but I know what side I'm on...


#20

Of course.. But please realize that when I asked my doctor for RT3 back in the day he said it was totally useless and TSH was the only indicator for hypo.

When I went to another doctor, who was supposed to be an endo specialist, he said the same thing.

They know what I am doing, and they know what I take, but sometimes you have to make decisions.