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Off ECA and No Energy

I was on ECA for 7 weeks. Now I’ve run out and feel like a total zombie.I can’t finish my workouts on lifting days. Other days I go walking, take a few steps and want to sit down.I’ve been taking 600mg caffeine before excersising,but no effect. I still have fat to lose, so I’m really worried about this. Is there anything else I can take to restore my energy?

Congratulations, you’ve managed to burn out your adrenal glands with the ECA stack.

It’s tough to come back from.

Start with consuming a ton of filtered water every day - at least a gallon.
Vitamin C 6000mg/day (split into 3 doses)
Pantethine 300mg, 3x/day
Look into a quality magnesium supplement (with multiple chelated forms) to bring your DHEA-sulfate back up
Diet should focus on alkalinizing yourself; ie. tons of veggies (and alkalinized water if possible).

After those basics, you can look into rhiodola, cordyceps, ashwaganda, licorice root, and asian gingseng

What other types of fat-burners or stimulants do you use? I did the same thing to myself, on a much worse scale, but it was years of (ab)using such things that I ended up in said condition. When I saw your user name and your avatar, combined with your post, I just get the gut feeling that you are not ever happy with your body fat level.

Not to mention that your focus is on finding something to take to wake you up instead of fixing the underlying issue. Am I right or even close?

If the above isn’t the case then I apologize for reading anything more into it. If it is the case, you really need to stop using ECA until you’re healthy again, at the bare minimum. Along with any other stimulants. You will be setting your hormones up for a real roller coaster ride that can take forever to repair. ECA does work, no doubt about it. However, when your adrenals are shot, you need to pay attention to that and address it.

I would second the nootropics. I found with those that even though my body was hurting for a while, I didn’t get the brain fog along with it. Can’t really say anything about the water and vitamins since that’s something I did before anyhow so it would be too difficult for me to say if that made a difference or not.

[quote]Waif No More wrote:
Is there anything else I can take to restore my energy?
[/quote]

Eating more food and rest :wink:

coming from somebody who used to be able to take 300mg caffeine and take a nap, i know all about burnt out adrenals.

best bet is to buy an all in one product like “southland performance revamp” or “AOR ortho adapt” (the one i used).

other than those you can take individual supplements such as:

1g vitamin c, 3x a day
high potency b vitamin complex with additional 500mg b5
ashwagandha
rhodiola
siberian ginseng
licorice root
phosphatidylserine

i can now get hyper and jittery off a small cup of coffee.

Yes, it seems as though you have temporarily fatigued your adrenals.

No worries, for most it is easy enough to bounce back from provided you attack it early (some people get screwed, but let’s assume you fall in the vast majority for the time being). It will, however require you to make some minor lifestyle/diet adjustments to facilitate the recovery.

Before running out any buying a crap ton of herbal supplements, first commit to the following:

  1. Drop ALL stimulants – I’m assuming you dropped the ECA, but you need to drop EVERYTHING for the time being. This includes the caffeine in your diet soda.

  2. Get more sleep (or deeper sleep, if quality is a concern). Ideally, you should sleep for as long as you need to (i.e., you should wake up naturally, not through an alarm clock). The more, the better.

  3. Stop actively dieting; eat ad lib (of QUALITY foods). Don’t worry, you won’t “waste” the past seven weeks doing this, and you need to remove the stress of dieting for the time being. Stick to plenty of fibrous vegetables and animal proteins with liberal use of healthy fats… most people find it difficult to overeat on this sort of diet. If you find yourself craving salt (this is common), invest in sea salt and liberally salt your meals. Drink enough water to make your piss clear.

  4. Either take a leave of absence from the gym (ideal) or reduce exercise frequency/intensity. Getting in the gym to keep the blood moving a few days a week may be helpful for some, but keep it light. If you don’t feel up to it, skip. Don’t go out of obligation.

  5. Send me nudie pics biweekly for skin tone and aura assessments.

  6. Try to avoid things that stress you excessively (tough, I know)

  7. Did I mention sleep?

  8. Take time to relax during the day. Don’t overexert yourself unnecessarily.

Main supplements should be: Vitamin C, a high-potency B-complex and magnesium. Things like melatonin and 5-HTP can be used to ensure better sleep.

Be sure to eat your fibrous veggie/animal protein/healthy fat meals throughout the day. This is one of those times I think the “six meals per day” concept actually works.

Don’t start cramming supplements down your throat to “compensate” for doing dumb shit like dieting hard and pounding stimulants. It’s not gonna work. Don’t try and power through this with more stimulants, and realize that the fix is in a LIFESTYLE change, not a supplement one.

Don’t worry about ruining your diet by taking a break from it. Don’t worry about losing your gainzz by taking time off/slacking in the gym for the next couple weeks. Your only focus should be on minimizing ALL types of stress and ensuring your body has all the nutrients it needs to repair itself.

You may very well feel worse for the first 1 - 3 days in doing this, because the lack of stimulants will exacerbate your issue. Just sleep and rest through it.

edit: forgot to mention that I would consider ZMA to be a “Main Supplement” – gives ya that magnesium and many people report deeper sleep (and crazy dreams) while taking it.

[quote]anonym wrote:
Yes, it seems as though you have temporarily fatigued your adrenals.

No worries, for most it is easy enough to bounce back from provided you attack it early (some people get screwed, but let’s assume you fall in the vast majority for the time being). It will, however require you to make some minor lifestyle/diet adjustments to facilitate the recovery.

Before running out any buying a crap ton of herbal supplements, first commit to the following:

  1. Drop ALL stimulants – I’m assuming you dropped the ECA, but you need to drop EVERYTHING for the time being. This includes the caffeine in your diet soda.

  2. Get more sleep (or deeper sleep, if quality is a concern). Ideally, you should sleep for as long as you need to (i.e., you should wake up naturally, not through an alarm clock). The more, the better.

  3. Stop actively dieting; eat ad lib (of QUALITY foods). Don’t worry, you won’t “waste” the past seven weeks doing this, and you need to remove the stress of dieting for the time being. Stick to plenty of fibrous vegetables and animal proteins with liberal use of healthy fats… most people find it difficult to overeat on this sort of diet. If you find yourself craving salt (this is common), invest in sea salt and liberally salt your meals. Drink enough water to make your piss clear.

  4. Either take a leave of absence from the gym (ideal) or reduce exercise frequency/intensity. Getting in the gym to keep the blood moving a few days a week may be helpful for some, but keep it light. If you don’t feel up to it, skip. Don’t go out of obligation.

  5. Send me nudie pics biweekly for skin tone and aura assessments.

  6. Try to avoid things that stress you excessively (tough, I know)

  7. Did I mention sleep?

  8. Take time to relax during the day. Don’t overexert yourself unnecessarily.

Main supplements should be: Vitamin C, a high-potency B-complex and magnesium. Things like melatonin and 5-HTP can be used to ensure better sleep.

Be sure to eat your fibrous veggie/animal protein/healthy fat meals throughout the day. This is one of those times I think the “six meals per day” concept actually works.

Don’t start cramming supplements down your throat to “compensate” for doing dumb shit like dieting hard and pounding stimulants. It’s not gonna work. Don’t try and power through this with more stimulants, and realize that the fix is in a LIFESTYLE change, not a supplement one.

Don’t worry about ruining your diet by taking a break from it. Don’t worry about losing your gainzz by taking time off/slacking in the gym for the next couple weeks. Your only focus should be on minimizing ALL types of stress and ensuring your body has all the nutrients it needs to repair itself.

You may very well feel worse for the first 1 - 3 days in doing this, because the lack of stimulants will exacerbate your issue. Just sleep and rest through it.[/quote]

there’s gold in this here post, in more ways than one :wink:

Of course both of us telling a woman to eat more food on a fat loss plan will most likely fall on deaf ears :wink:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course both of us telling a woman to eat more food on a fat loss plan will most likely fall on deaf ears ;)[/quote]

Haha, I know right?

I figured you could use the echo, given the target audience.

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Of course both of us telling a woman to eat more food on a fat loss plan will most likely fall on deaf ears ;)[/quote]

Haha, I know right?

I figured you could use the echo, given the target audience.[/quote]

echo? You shouted overme, way to steal my thunder :smiley:

lol adrenal fatigue

Heres Lyle Mcdonalds opinion on the matter

"every person I’ve ever run into who had a supposed ‘adrenal fatigue’ problem invariably had something else (usually thyroid) underlying it. I’ve also Yet to hear of a single person cured of adrenal fatigue by all the stupid supplements and protocols

here’s why: adrenal fatigue is made up bs to sell expensive product to gullible people"

And then he linked to this article below

http://drumlib.com/dp/000006B.htm

Personally I think your issue has more to do with addiction/building a tolerance. THe longer/more you take anything the greater the tolerance/addiction you build to it

Lay off stims for 2 weeks (where youll feel like shit) and see how you bounce back.

Im yet to see a legit scientific source showing that “adrenal fatigue” is real.

(I will say tho that all the suggestions above are pretty solid for your situation, nothing to do with "adrenal fatigue’ though)

[quote]dcm1602 wrote:
lol adrenal fatigue

Heres Lyle Mcdonalds opinion on the matter

"every person I’ve ever run into who had a supposed ‘adrenal fatigue’ problem invariably had something else (usually thyroid) underlying it. I’ve also Yet to hear of a single person cured of adrenal fatigue by all the stupid supplements and protocols

here’s why: adrenal fatigue is made up bs to sell expensive product to gullible people"[/quote]

Lyle McDonald is correct in saying that there is a relationship between AF and hypothyroid; however, he is incorrect in stating that a hypothyroid state is always an underlying condition. What he might not realize is that cortisol is necessary for optimal thyroid function; compromised cortisol levels negatively impact thyroid hormone levels in that cortisol plays a role not only in facilitating T4 --> T3 conversion, but also in the T3 --> receptor interaction. There is an extremely harmonious relationship between the two that is often attributed (incorrectly) to just thyroid hormone.

As I mentioned in the other thread, you can avail yourself of this information easily enough through Google. In fact, in your journey through self-education you will see some people diagnosed as hypothyroid seeing no relief in their “hypothyroid” symptoms despite liberal use of T4. What they DO see, instead, is a great increase in rT3, which, you will THEN notice, dovetails reasonably well with the importance of cortisol in thyroid hormone conversion.

You will also notice many people attempting to use Cytomel (or some other T3 medication) to obviate this conversion issue. You will then notice many of them seeing no relief initially, which you might consider to be because cortisol is necessary for T3 to interact appropriately with its target. In an attempt to overdrive their thyroid (which they were assured is the culprit), they increase their T3 intake to extremely high levels, often resulting in a debilitating increase in fatigue (some have even reported passing out). In fact, if you dig even DEEPER, you will find that many are able to prevent this with concurrent HC therapy, allowing for effective relief of symptoms at a moderate dose of thyroid hormone. Remembering that there is a harmonious relationship between the two hormones, things might start to fall into place for you.

Now, I am not suggesting that EVERY person who claims this condition actually has it, nor do I know for certain that the OP actually does – this is something lab tests and a competent medical professional would need to determine. However, in either case the lifestyle factors needed to address recovery from stimulant abuse and mild-moderate AF are virtually the same.

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]dcm1602 wrote:
lol adrenal fatigue

Heres Lyle Mcdonalds opinion on the matter

"every person I’ve ever run into who had a supposed ‘adrenal fatigue’ problem invariably had something else (usually thyroid) underlying it. I’ve also Yet to hear of a single person cured of adrenal fatigue by all the stupid supplements and protocols

here’s why: adrenal fatigue is made up bs to sell expensive product to gullible people"[/quote]

Lyle McDonald is correct in saying that there is a relationship between AF and hypothyroid; however, he is incorrect in stating that a hypothyroid state is always an underlying condition. What he might not realize is that cortisol is necessary for optimal thyroid function; compromised cortisol levels negatively impact thyroid hormone levels in that cortisol plays a role not only in facilitating T4 --> T3 conversion, but also in the T3 --> receptor interaction. There is an extremely harmonious relationship between the two that is often attributed (incorrectly) to just thyroid hormone.

As I mentioned in the other thread, you can avail yourself of this information easily enough through Google. In fact, in your journey through self-education you will see some people diagnosed as hypothyroid seeing no relief in their “hypothyroid” symptoms despite liberal use of T4. What they DO see, instead, is a great increase in rT3, which, you will THEN notice, dovetails reasonably well with the importance of cortisol in thyroid hormone conversion.

You will also notice many people attempting to use Cytomel (or some other T3 medication) to obviate this conversion issue. You will then notice many of them seeing no relief initially, which you might consider to be because cortisol is necessary for T3 to interact appropriately with its target. In an attempt to overdrive their thyroid (which they were assured is the culprit), they increase their T3 intake to extremely high levels, often resulting in a debilitating increase in fatigue (some have even reported passing out). In fact, if you dig even DEEPER, you will find that many are able to prevent this with concurrent HC therapy, allowing for effective relief of symptoms at a moderate dose of thyroid hormone. Remembering that there is a harmonious relationship between the two hormones, things might start to fall into place for you.

Now, I am not suggesting that EVERY person who claims this condition actually has it, nor do I know for certain that the OP actually does – this is something lab tests and a competent medical professional would need to determine. However, in either case the lifestyle factors needed to address recovery from stimulant abuse and mild-moderate AF are virtually the same.[/quote]

Your explanation is much appreciated and informative.

[quote]Waif No More wrote:
I was on ECA for 7 weeks. Now I’ve run out and feel like a total zombie.I can’t finish my workouts on lifting days. Other days I go walking, take a few steps and want to sit down.I’ve been taking 600mg caffeine before excersising,but no effect. I still have fat to lose, so I’m really worried about this. Is there anything else I can take to restore my energy?
[/quote]
Google EC stack. There should be a link to a hotnfit website that has info on it at the top. It gives a bunch of info on how to diet for it. Everyone gave good advice. I didn’t see potassium mentioned though and that’s also pretty important too I think.

You shouldn’t be on a EC stack for more than 8 weeks and should take at least a month off after that. That means caffeine too. I’m assuming you got some results and lost some weight and fat. You look fine in your avatar.

I’d suggest taking the next 2 or 3 months to build muscle (gain maybe 10 pounds, not sure what’s best for a woman) and strength and then maybe try another cut. You can only cut so much fat in a specific period and I’m betting you lost some muscle and strength on that cut and you should build that back up to make it easier to cut the remaining fat off later.

I went through the same thing recently and lost too much weight and kind of screwed the cut up, so now I have to rebuild some of the strength and muscle I lost, probably gain 15-20 pounds, mostly muscle hopefully and then cut again. I got good results though but from what I understand you’re not going to cut off all the fat on your first cut.

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]dcm1602 wrote:
lol adrenal fatigue

Heres Lyle Mcdonalds opinion on the matter

"every person I’ve ever run into who had a supposed ‘adrenal fatigue’ problem invariably had something else (usually thyroid) underlying it. I’ve also Yet to hear of a single person cured of adrenal fatigue by all the stupid supplements and protocols

here’s why: adrenal fatigue is made up bs to sell expensive product to gullible people"[/quote]

Lyle McDonald is correct in saying that there is a relationship between AF and hypothyroid; however, he is incorrect in stating that a hypothyroid state is always an underlying condition. What he might not realize is that cortisol is necessary for optimal thyroid function; compromised cortisol levels negatively impact thyroid hormone levels in that cortisol plays a role not only in facilitating T4 --> T3 conversion, but also in the T3 --> receptor interaction. There is an extremely harmonious relationship between the two that is often attributed (incorrectly) to just thyroid hormone.

As I mentioned in the other thread, you can avail yourself of this information easily enough through Google. In fact, in your journey through self-education you will see some people diagnosed as hypothyroid seeing no relief in their “hypothyroid” symptoms despite liberal use of T4. What they DO see, instead, is a great increase in rT3, which, you will THEN notice, dovetails reasonably well with the importance of cortisol in thyroid hormone conversion.

You will also notice many people attempting to use Cytomel (or some other T3 medication) to obviate this conversion issue. You will then notice many of them seeing no relief initially, which you might consider to be because cortisol is necessary for T3 to interact appropriately with its target. In an attempt to overdrive their thyroid (which they were assured is the culprit), they increase their T3 intake to extremely high levels, often resulting in a debilitating increase in fatigue (some have even reported passing out). In fact, if you dig even DEEPER, you will find that many are able to prevent this with concurrent HC therapy, allowing for effective relief of symptoms at a moderate dose of thyroid hormone. Remembering that there is a harmonious relationship between the two hormones, things might start to fall into place for you.

Now, I am not suggesting that EVERY person who claims this condition actually has it, nor do I know for certain that the OP actually does – this is something lab tests and a competent medical professional would need to determine. However, in either case the lifestyle factors needed to address recovery from stimulant abuse and mild-moderate AF are virtually the same.[/quote]

Awesome post. If there is an underlying adrenal issue with hypothyroidism, you’re not going to be able to fix the thyroid until you deal with the adrenals first.

I read in another thread that you had adrenal fatigue and were able to get rid of it on your own. I, for one, would love to know what you did. I’m hesitant to ask though since I know that someone here is going to self-diagnose and treat themselves for a condition that they’re not even certain they have.

[quote]Jackie_Jacked wrote:
I read in another thread that you had adrenal fatigue and were able to get rid of it on your own. I, for one, would love to know what you did. I’m hesitant to ask though since I know that someone here is going to self-diagnose and treat themselves for a condition that they’re not even certain they have. [/quote]

Well, obviously the list I outlined above was what eventually become the foundation of my recovery plan. It took me a little while to come to those “common sense” steps, likely due to the fact that I wasn’t giving my lifestyle enough credit for my condition (I didn’t think I was doing anything too awful; my roommates never seemed too worse for the wear despite doing dumber shit). I was relying more on medication to cover for what I perceived to be genetic shortcomings. An AI for E2, dessicated thyroid for TSH, etc. Plus whatever vitamin or supplement I could stuff down my throat, no matter how loosely it was related to some obscure aspect of my physiology that might, maybe, influence the development of AF in a small minority of the population.

Desperation is a funny thing.

I also made use of DHEA and pregnenolone – both of which were based on lab work – which actually helped quite a bit. I wouldn’t recommend them to someone who either can’t obtain the blood tests to justify them or can’t obtain the blood tests to monitor their levels; despite being sold OTC, they ARE, after all, hormones and should be treated with a little more respect than vitamin C or something. I no longer take either, nor do I take any prescription stuff, and I can safely say, with labs to back me up, that none of my lingering issues can be blamed on my hormones.

In its entirety, it’s actually a super long, boring story so I’m hesitant to recount the play-by-play. But, I am happy to help answer any specific questions about the subject so long as it is clear that I am not a medical professional and that my advice should not be used to dictate treatment or act as a substitute for a quality checkup. There are actually a few extremely bright people on this board who know a thing or two about this, so maybe they could chime in as well.

Ugh, I forgot to add in my earlier post: while some people find themselves either better able to utilize T3 or convert T4 --> T3 on HC, others find this ineffective (the half-life being the suspected culprit). In those individuals, pregnenolone is usually advised (or progesterone or even some DHEA, if preg doesn’t flow as it should in theory).

The difference tends to be found in whether or not low cortisol is the result of a reversible overexertion (in the younger crowd, who find HC takes enough of the burden off their own production to allow them to recover) or if it is the result of genetic downregulation (older individuals, I’ve noticed, tend to find pregnenolone the more effective option in this regard).

Unfortunately, my avatar is years old. That pic was taken following a cycle of Var. I WISH I still looked like that!My energy level has much improved simply by eating some more carbs. I was following a plan called Body trim, which is low fat and low carb,ie. very tough. Calories are around 1000/day, which is way too low to go without chemical help. I’ve ordered some Revamp, because I need to reduce my tolerance to caffeine. Thanks very much for all the advice. Obviously the jury is still out as to whether adrenal fatigue is real or not, but I’all see how I go on the Revamp. I understand I have to go off all stims for it to work, is that correct?