T Nation

Off Cycle. Blood Work Results


#1

So after about a year of cycling on and off -- usually like 8-12 weeks on and 8-12 weeks off, I decided to get serious and actually get some blood work done after the last cycle. It was a test/tren cycle, after the cycle I waited two weeks and then did 4 weeks of toremifene citrate: wk1 120/wk2 90/wk3 60/wk4 60. I waited another two weeks and got some blood work done. So this blood work was done 8 weeks after my last injection. Here are the results.

Testosterone: 215 ng/dl
Luteinizing Hormone: 2.9 miu/ml
FSH: 3.0 miu/ml
Estradiol 18.0 pg/dl

24 yrs old.

At this point I am thinking I will run the rest of the toremifene I have at 60mg/day and then get my blood work redone in a few months.

But honestly I am wondering if I am just fucked and will have to stay on the shit indefinitely. What do you guys think I should do at this point?


#2

Stay on, no point in going off anyways if you want to go anywhere in BB.


#3

If you dont have before numbers to compare these numbers to, theyre essentially useless.

How do you know you didnt hae a t level in the 300s before you ever used steroids? If you did, these results wouldnt be so alarming.

If you levels were 700, it’s a different story.

Any opinion on your current situation is pure speculation.

and my opinion on your aggressive approach to cycling. You were probably better off just blasting and cruising. Or running 4-6 week cycles with 8-10 weeks between, maybe (and obviously with blood work inbetween). 12 week cycles are the most useless IMO, because theyre too long to recover well from while still being short enough to convince the user that he is being responsible as opposed to B/Cing (which is scary? I guess?), making a 12 week cycle more attractive than it should be.

You probably did about 3 cycles in a year. Shutdown for the time of the cycle and during most of your PCT. Meaning you were shut down for more than half the year. Did you maintain 100% of your gains during the off time? I doubt it. It makes little sense to be shutdown for so long and still make mediocre progress.

I dont want it to sound like Im unloading on you but I hope others read this and realize that multiple attempts at cycling and recovery from 3 month cycles in such a short time frame can be more risky than most think. If someone is willing to cope with the ups and downs of frequent cycles with no guarantee of full recovery, I dont see how b/c is LESS attractive.

Probably shouldnt have posted all of this as I wont get into a debate. Oh well.


#4

I’m starting to agree with higher doses/shorter cycles. I’m 2 months out from my last 12 weeker and I’m still not feeling 100%. At the end of the day, shutdown is shutdown and whether you did 750mg for 8 weeks or 500mg for 10 weeks.


#5

Bonez is 100% right about keeping cycles shorter.

Unless you are blasting and cruising then its best to keep it short.

IMO if you are just doing this for personal reasons, I see no reason to blast/cruise… I would stick with a few short cycles a year.

If you are trying to become competitive at a high level, just stay on and blast/cruise. I haven’t came off in a year, except for some bloodwork… went off for 4 weeks, no PCT, total test was 307 ng/DL (prior to ever using AAS it was 274 pg/DL)… I don’t remember the rest.

At any rate, my test was around that, my LH and FSH were basically non-existent, but I don’t remember those numbers.

Started cruising again, and back to feeling awesome.


#6

Bonez, did you end up doing the blasting and cruising thing? Everyone I know who fucks with gear has ended up doing something similar because the withdrawal sucks so fucking bad and gets worse with every cycle.


#7

You have no idea what you’re talking about…It sucks you had a poor experience, but I don’t understand why you insist on projecting your own health problems on others…


#8

Youre really talking about a situation where someone uses a large dose of hCG for pct? For 3 months at that. Are you retarded?

You are probably right that some damage is done every time. But you also have no idea why you may be right. Your post is the epitome of bro science.


#9

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
You have no idea what you’re talking about…It sucks you had a poor experience, but I don’t understand why you insist on projecting your own health problems on others…[/quote]

Well if I am wrong I would like to see one example of someone who actually got some bloodwork done after a long cycle and it didn’t come back looking like shit. All I see is people saying “my balls are back” or “I feel better”. Shit, I feel okay and my balls are ace but my levels are still fucked. I think most people fuck up with the blood work assuming that because they did PCT they are fine which obviously wasn’t the case with me and a LOT of people.


#10

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
You have no idea what you’re talking about…It sucks you had a poor experience, but I don’t understand why you insist on projecting your own health problems on others…[/quote]

^^^This post may not make much sense in light of your post that the mods unedited back to its original revision. It was in response to your edits, which you apparently made more than once.


#11

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:
Bonez, did you end up doing the blasting and cruising thing? Everyone I know who fucks with gear has ended up doing something similar because the withdrawal sucks so fucking bad and gets worse with every cycle.[/quote]

No. I’m not a bodybuilder.

I dont get withdrawal either, lol.


#12

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
You have no idea what you’re talking about…It sucks you had a poor experience, but I don’t understand why you insist on projecting your own health problems on others…[/quote]

Well if I am wrong I would like to see one example of someone who actually got some bloodwork done after a long cycle and it didn’t come back looking like shit. All I see is people saying “my balls are back” or “I feel better”. Shit, I feel okay and my balls are ace but my levels are still fucked. I think most people fuck up with the blood work assuming that because they did PCT they are fine which obviously wasn’t the case with me and a LOT of people.[/quote]

If I can find you one person, will you stop whining and go away?


#13

You should know that you cant post links to competing forums. Im glad it got edited it because the info was silly enough that it doesnt serve a legit purpose.


#14

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:
Bonez, did you end up doing the blasting and cruising thing? Everyone I know who fucks with gear has ended up doing something similar because the withdrawal sucks so fucking bad and gets worse with every cycle.[/quote]

No. I’m not a bodybuilder.

I dont get withdrawal either, lol. [/quote]

So if you cycled off I am curious what your bloodwork looked like wrt to test, fsh, lh?


#15

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:
Bonez, did you end up doing the blasting and cruising thing? Everyone I know who fucks with gear has ended up doing something similar because the withdrawal sucks so fucking bad and gets worse with every cycle.[/quote]

No. I’m not a bodybuilder.

I dont get withdrawal either, lol. [/quote]

So if you cycled off I am curious what your bloodwork looked like wrt to test, fsh, lh?[/quote]

Ive never done a ‘long’ cycle. My hormone levels dont matter.

Further, I never got a hormone test before my first cycle. My numbers are irrelevant.


#16

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:
Bonez, did you end up doing the blasting and cruising thing? Everyone I know who fucks with gear has ended up doing something similar because the withdrawal sucks so fucking bad and gets worse with every cycle.[/quote]

No. I’m not a bodybuilder.

I dont get withdrawal either, lol. [/quote]

So if you cycled off I am curious what your bloodwork looked like wrt to test, fsh, lh?[/quote]

Ive never done a ‘long’ cycle. My hormone levels dont matter.

Further, I never got a hormone test before my first cycle. My numbers are irrelevant.
[/quote]

That makes it sound like you either haven’t had one done or it was bad


#17

And your comment about the ester just kicking in is asinine. A gram of prop per week and 50mg/d dbol for 6 weeks will certainly yield results.


#18

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]INTERNETWARLORD wrote:
Bonez, did you end up doing the blasting and cruising thing? Everyone I know who fucks with gear has ended up doing something similar because the withdrawal sucks so fucking bad and gets worse with every cycle.[/quote]

No. I’m not a bodybuilder.

I dont get withdrawal either, lol. [/quote]

So if you cycled off I am curious what your bloodwork looked like wrt to test, fsh, lh?[/quote]

Ive never done a ‘long’ cycle. My hormone levels dont matter.

Further, I never got a hormone test before my first cycle. My numbers are irrelevant.
[/quote]

That makes it sound like you either haven’t had one done or it was bad[/quote]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I still make gains while off drugs. Im doing just fine thanks.

What dont you get about my situation not applying at all to what youre asking. I can tell this stuff isnt really clicking for you, but throw us a bone here.


#19

You know what, fuck this shit, I came here for advice not to argue about whether or not my natural testosterone was that of an 80 year old man


#20

Does anyone have some advice for me because other than just waiting I am at a loss