T Nation

Of Bodybuilding and Metrosexuality


I would scoff at guys who would flex in front of the mirror, admiring their hard work, while I avoided looking because I was hardcore. I was busting my ass lifting weights, but I did not look at myself, I was too hardcore. I was more hardcore than those guys who spent hours in the gym getting a pump in their biceps. Yet they didn't look half bad. A lot of them looked decent. But what did those guys know, they weren't hardcore.

Note: This info will not apply to 1 out of every 10 of you. Lucky bastards.

I started a thread called about why we lift lift weights. I justified it as it being a big ego stroke. While that's true, it there is much more to it.

Ultimately, we want to be confident and attractive to women. Now, how many of you are willing to admit this to yourselves? I bet not many. Sadly, male sexuality is just something that doesn't get talked about all too much.

For instance, metrosexuals. That's a horrible fucking word by the way. Anything ending in '-sexual' is too similar to homosexual. I digress.

Metrosexuals get a bad rap on T-Nation. It's a very odd phenomenon. This whole damn website is devoted to getting big, strong, muscles which ultimately make you look and feel better about yourself. That's all there is to it! Well, what the fuck do you think metrosexuals do? They buy nice clothes, groom themselves, to ultimately attract hot women.

I used dislike the whole metrosexuality thing. I mean why the hell would you spend so much time on making yourself look good? A man's man wears flannel shirts and Dungarees. Yeah, that's why he's a MAN's man.

There's no infrastructure for male sexuality like there is for women. There's no denying that females have all the sexual power. Therein, lies a huge social problem for 99% of the male population. Do you understand how important this point is. Let me repeat it again.


Fuck, my dad's never said one word to me about how to pick up women. And my mom tells me that you have to conform to whatever the girl wants. My friends and I used to play sports all day growing up. When we got to high school we didn't really talk about girls because we sucked with women. I'm sure I'm not alone.

Bodybuilding and metrosexuallity are like kissing cousins. Two methods that men use to hopefully 'get the girl.' You know what though? Women don't care all that much how you look. Sure it helps. Just like taking a multivitamin helps improve your health. Steak and vegetables will do a whole lot more for you, however.

Confidence is what bodybuilders and metrosexuals are often missing in their lives. All the muscles or expensive clothes in the world ain't gonna do shit for you if you don't know how to talk and act around beautiful women.

(Incidentally, metrosexuals are more successful I feel. Anybody who's read or seen anything in the PUA (Pick-up-artist) community (and real lift, obviously) knows that wearing interesting , fashionable things makes you more attractive to women. The guys who are most confident and cocky, thus banging hot chicks, are also most likely to be a 'metrosexual.' As far as I've observed, it's true in Miami and in Orlando.)

Do yourselves a favor and look up David Deangelo, Mystery Method, Neil Strauss (Author of 'The Game'), etc. I have not even scratched the surface with what I've shared with you tonight.

It has answered a look of questions in my life, made me rethink the way attraction really works. It really demystified a part of my life I've been trying to avoid like the plague because I knew nothing about it.


While I find your threads interesting, I definately don't agree with this. I do agree with the fact that most men in today's society haven been taught that women have more sexual power, however, this is due to a number of factors.(which I'm not gonna elaborate on further, unless there's a demand for)
Among these are institutions, which have taken away direct instincts, etc.

While I know many are gonna disagree with this fact(and I do too, at least at first - but bear with me)I'm gonna explain this a little further.

Men train because they want more selfesteem.
A man with more selfesteem will be more attractive to women.
Whether or not the man starting to train realises this or his this as an end goal, he WILL be more attractive to women if his confidence increases because of working out.
As such, we all have this as an indirect goal(we are all eventually more attractive to women because of what we do, and we enjoy what we do), and some perhaps as a direct goal(the guys who go to the gym "just for the chicks" - whether or not they're succesful at bodybuilding we'll leave in the middle).


This is open for debate(on a more specific thread).
I've devoted a large part of my life to dating and such, and I do take care of myself and consider myself succesful with women, however, this is indeed a matter of giving yourself confidence.
If you feel confident wearing nothing special, you will be able to attract women(as I've seen several of my close friends do - one guy is in fact a farmer and it's not hard to tell, but he's born for the game).

I do agree with you that all this is woven together.

Bottom line :

Everything we do in life is to make us a better, stronger person, which makes us efficient for survival.
(as dictated by our instincts - whether this is necessary or not is irrelevant)
If we as men are a better, stronger person than the next guy, we will attract the women around us.
And we will reproduce.
Hence, our genes survive.
So fuck around a lot, it's all good.




Ok, I just reread your post. You're right about the women thing. Most guys definitely screw up by thinking that women hold all the sexual power which is completely untrue. I also know that David Deangelo is a zen master at figuring out women. With that said, preaching aint gonna get you anywhere, son. I'm guessing your soap box posturing is a defense mechanism for being hearing all this metrosexual talk. Well, "metrosexual" means different things to different people. On here, it's those guys that act tough in the gym but don't know WTF they're doing and think they're God's gift to earth (read: cocky) without any personality (read: funny). Come on, you should know the whole C+F deal, right? Take it to heart and let this issue go. This is a Body Building site. Who the hell cares why others come to this site? It's really none of my business or my problem. I might chime in an opinion one way or another about other people's motives, but I sure as hell am not going to go on preaching to them expecting them to change.



That is because we do. You guys might not want to admit it, but it is the female that does the choosing. Not just in the human species, but throughout most of nature. That is why males are usually brightly colored and display to females. It is to get her attention and show her how fit he is a why he should be her choice for a mate. Sure, there are exceptions to this. But for the most part, the females do the choosing. There are some very important biological reasons for this that I have gone into before on this site.


Not in my experience. But I was one picky fellow. So they could pick me, but I'd ignore them anyway. Wait a minute maybe I am agreeing with you then. I could ask my wife who picked who but I fear her mighty wrath.

Also, in nature it is not always the case where the male is the pretty one ... it is more common in birds I believe, not in apes / monkeys / baboons where the females usually have the brightly coloured bits. And the females do NOT do the picking with simians, the males fight for dominance and the females rarely have much choice (although the variations across species are as numerous as the species themselves). And sometimes the females sneak off with non-alpha males especially if they find a young, up and coming male.

What is wrong with metrosexual? I like the metro, and I like sex. Although perhaps it is not a good idea to combine the two.


The male/female selecting pattern is somewhat different, and it depends on what frame the person is working in.

Women tend to look more for social proof from men, such as power, being attractive to other women, and of course personality and such, while men tend to be more attracted to more visual features(t&a), face, etc.
Of course, this is not exclusive, as women are attracted to visual looks just as well as men, as are the latter attracted to personality, but these are the more dominant features they look for.

Now, most women usually tend to have a lot of men available to them(as it is indeed the man's nature to "court the female"), so they have a frame of abundance, and have more to choose from, and will usually be attracted to a man with certain characteristics, namely the man who leads the others and/or has the best personality, etc.(generally speaking here)

Since the men with these characteristisc usually have more than one woman to choose from as well, it's kind of paradoxical to say one is the selector over the other.
I'd say it depends on which one of the two people has the most social power.

But in general, I would agree with you and say women are usual the ones who do the choosing.
Although there are insecure ones who fool themselves to think the man the "picked" has all the properties they searched for, but that's another story.


Is there anything that we can do in life that is not to build confidence and attract women? If I like to bowl, is that to be confident and attract women? Stamp collecting? If that is the case, then lifting weights is just another activity, and I don't understand why you'd single it out like this. If not, then it leaves open the possibility that there are other motivations for lifting weights.

What's wrong with the word "homosexual"?

This is because of a stereotype, and you really have to pay attention to the definition here. When most people think "metrosexual", they don't think "well-dressed man", but rather, they think, "primping, preening boy who spends an undue amount of time and attention to his looks to the point of missing out on other important facets of his life".

Yay, people have different interests, and most interests don't matter in the scheme of things (an existentialist might argue that no interests matter, but that's for another thread).

You can actually spend a lot of time getting into a flannel shirt and Dungarees, but it is apparent what you're saying. There are other issues than the entirely subjective, geographically and socioeconomically dependent "looking good for women". There is the focus on one's looks that can be overboard, and thus unattractive, just like a guy that won't stray from his diet even if it means it puts him in a social situation that gets him laid that night. And if you have to take hours to get ready to go out, odds are that you have such a narrow idea of "fashion" that it is not, in fact, advanced, but rather myopic.

A simple look around and 10 minutes spent on the shitter thinking about it will reveal this. Just pay attention to the kind of guys that highly-prized women are with. Sure, some of the dudes have bodies, but that is more due to random sampling of the male population than anything else.

But then what defines "metrosexual"? I assure you your case studies in Orlando and Miami will not have the same results as elsewhere, as what is fashionable changes quite a bit from region to region and class to class. Again, the definition of "metrosexual" is important. If it is only caring about how you look, then there are plenty of rednecks I know in jeans, boots, perfectly rolled/folded hats, etc. that are metrosexuals, very good with women, yet dress nothing like the guys in Miami do.


The only reason women are in control of the "sex market" is that too many men are willing to bend themselves to the wills of women. There has been a huge change in society over the last couple of decades. In the 70s and 80s, large, manly men with hairy chests were considered sexy. No man would even consider acting feminine to attract women. In the 90s, men started to objectify themselves(this change correlates directly with the increasing acceptance of homosexuality) Popular media has a huge affect on this, changing the physical expectations placed upon men. We've gone from John Wayne to Sean Connery to Arnold and now on to boyish, Abercrombie/Calvin Klein models. Now most young women expect men to have shaved torsos and six-packs. As women were exposed more often to feminine/homosexual men, they started demanding similar traits in their mates - and a lot of men have obliged them! Just say "no" for fucks sake.

And, on top of this, women (especially in America) have been trained - nay brainwashed - into believing that they are princesses and queens that any man should be glad to have. And men have been brainwashed into believing that women must always be treated as such. Women's rights/political correctness have turned into feminism and a struggle by women to avoid (at all costs) resembling any stereotypes.

The only way to stop this train is to stop laying the tracks. As men, we have to learn how to say no to women and realize that they want us just as much as we want them - Stop fucking with nature people. There are too many people - both male and female - in this world who are acting against their own nature to meet the expectations of society. If we'd all just act naturally, those expectations would change.

Can ya' dig it?


I'm glad you phrased it that way; "men have been taught". It implies the illusion that lies at the heart of the matter, because the concept is entirely BS.

Work a job, like a bouncer, where by default you become the authority figure. Women will throw themselves at you. In droves. I worked with guys who looked like gorillas and never said more than two words to anybody in the club, and they still had one or two cuties hitting on them a month. Guys who drifted close to average could count on a steady parade of one or two a week -- more, depending on the season. The pretty boys would sometimes have flocks gaggling all around them.

Some women think they choose based on gender prerogative. This is sexist bullshit.

Some men think they choose based on superiority. This is crass egotism.

The human condition is generally too complex to boil down into simple formulas, yet is overestimated entirely when we strive to seek complexity in it. In the end, a broken clock is still right twice a day -- sooner or later we'll all find some example to back our pet theory.

Best to just strive for excellence of mind, body, and spirit, seek to be genuine, and enjoy what we have, while we have it, in my opinion. The rest isn't worth fretting about.

Fathers tend to either a) not know how, or b) don't want their teenage son coming home announcing an impending, unexpected member of the family. I don't blame the guy. :slight_smile:

I despise "romantic" nonsense. Part of that package is the innane idea that the man must submit any sense of pride, self-worth, or identity to please the woman, at her whim -- but of course, it would never be stated overtly as being such. From the inane behaviour of the Courts of Romance in the middle ages to modern Hollywood fairy-tales, we see the theme time and again: the best man is a changed man.

This goes hand in hand with what I said about striving to be genuine. If a person has a real core, man or woman, this societal dross washes off them. Otherwise it infects, and helps perpetuate the various cycles of dysfunctional relationships we see permeating our society.

Really? My friends and I did a great deal of talking about women. Save for a couple of us, there was almost no dating action in high school. That changed in my 20's when the girls became women, and more emotionally/intellectually interesting.

I can see that argument. Some of us here are more into weight-lifting than bodybuilding, though. :wink: Physique alteration is just a secondary, albeit pleasant, effect.

Depends on the woman. Best not to categorize by gender when it comes to state of mind. The women that have impressed me most have always been more in touch with their physical side, and had little patience for games of romance.

Worrying about transitory things is a zero sum game. There's no winning. Body, mind, and soul, seek a strong core. :slight_smile:

You're worrying too much about trivial things when you've got much bigger fish to fry. And deriving some glee from starting flame wars on a message board by slamming the hobby of most of its residents -- the very reason for the board existing in the first place? Why bother? It's a waste of time and energy that only serves to bring further negative feelings into a world already plagued with such distractions.

Unless you simply meant to open philosophical discussions on certain matters, in which case a more polite approach would have been adviseable.


This has to be one of the most innane theories I've ever heard. Ever. That's an incredibly selective memory combined with a really poor look back on history.

This trend goes waaaaaay farther than the 90's. In the 70's big, hairy men were sex symbols? Really? We lived in different worlds, man, because what I remember is women across North America drooling over Travolta's pretty-boy looks, skinny little defined body, all hairless and oiled down. Somehow Alan Alda made it to sex symbol status as well, and I'd hardly call him big and beefy.

Even back in the 40's and 50's; John Wayne and James Cagney were never sex symbols. Look to Errol Flynn and Cary Grant -- pretty boy and metro. The one that may have had the most women swooning over him was ultra-manly Rock Hudson... who came out of the closet in the 80's.

There have always been pretty boys, and some women have always loved pretty boys. It's inescapable. There are texts from medieval romances talking about pretty-boy knights that the damsels swooned over. The rougher-looking ones only ever won the damsel over, if ever, after much patience and proof of valour.

The Cattle Raid of Cooley, what may be one of the oldest romances of western society (set before the time of Christ), had the other warriors of the Red Branch bitching because the women were fawning over the foremost of the brothers in arms: Cuchulain. They complained that he was too pretty. His face was fair, his features feminine -- he even failed to grow a beard like a "proper" man.

In old Irish myth, the Tuatha de Danaan, the Gods of Early Ireland, were plagued by the presence of a wretched king -- because as they voted who the warriors would back as the new king after the old, just one fell maimed in battle, the women piped up in support of the prettiest of all pretty boys: Breas the Beautiful. Voted in on looks, he plagued the Gods with god-awful rulership until his ass was ousted.

Blahblahblah. :slight_smile: The cycle is old as time. And damned silly, too. :slight_smile:


What's the next subject in your courses Obo, so that we can prepare for the next turdlet in advance.


How increasing muscle size makes your penis look relatively smaller.


Which is a good thing so you don't scare the women when ye is in the nud


Hmm, yes. I lift weights in order to bring my body into proportion with my dingle.\

Hey Obo, if women control all of the sex, what happens with the homos? Is there some board of women who decide which gay guys will hook up with whom? (Just a smartass remark, which should be expected from me).





Well it just seems like so many girls choose me, that I have to choose between them. How's that for alpha male?


I think that there are alot 'easier' ways to increase your attractiveness to females than lifting. It can help, but it is definitely not THE way.

There are probably as many reasons to lift as there are members on this site. I started as a skinny 18 year old (155 lbs) because I wanted to make the college football team (I did, and put on 30+ lbs over my college years. I was a DB, didn't need to be 220 or more).

Now at 46 I lift because I am a coach and because I realize I am actually getting older, weaker and will die. Most of us first figure this out when we are in our 40's.

Lifting to get chicks is probably not going to keep you in the gym long.

If you really are just interested in getting laid, figure out how to make money, and then flash it. And I am talking quantity, not quality. This is not my personal strategy, but if you want to get your numbers up, it will probably work.


Yes, very interesting, but there is no such thing as a metrosexual. We are men. I have no problem admitting that I probably would go for a guy if the opportunity presented itself. I even look like a homo. Why did you spend so long writing this? It makes me wonder quite how secure you are about your own sexuality.


Yes, I do believe that is true. Why just the other day I met one such woman, who sipped on a "Winecooler" or "queer beer" expounded on "making out with hot guys" with our gay friend.

Me? I'll get with anything I can drag back to my cave and get to hold still [enough].

You hot. Me Ugg.