T Nation

Odd Future: Art and Modern Hip-Hop


Thought I would leave this here. Tyler and the rest of the OddFuture rap outfit are causing a huge uproar in the Underground Hip-Hop world...

Discuss please. I love me a good art debate.


Disturbing? Unfiltered artistic expression? Beautiful dichotomy?


I watched both videos in the first link....and I hope they credit Onyx for their style in that Jimmy Fallon vid.

I mean, seriously, Onyx even had a better overall stage presence.

I'm not hating, just being real. I like artists who aren't afraid to go into an aspect of music that breaks the norm.


Actually Tyler doesn't credit onyx because he doesn't listen to much rap. He prefers french jazz. I can see where one might infer an onyx influence though. The vocal delivery is similar. Most everything else however is strikingly different.

Also interesting to note is that Tyler has full artistic control of all of his projects. He makes his own beats, writes his own shit, he even directed that music video - a damn well constructed piece of cinematography if I may say so.


Art and rap.



Art and rap...two completely different things in this case.


Ok now we're getting somewhere. Would you say this isn't art? Why?

I would argue that this is not only art, but an art crafted with such virtuosity that it can be casually understood at a glace, or put under a microscope where it does not cease to show its superb craftsmanship.


cant watch the vids internet being a bitch. could i get a summary of what's up?


I remember hearing about Tyler the Creator after hearing about him dissing the big rap blogs like 2dopeboyz, which cracked me up.

He's pretty good. Honestly he reminds me of Slim Shady LP era Eminem more than anybody else. The character he plays reminds me of Slim Shady-- he has a penchant for dissing anyone and everyone [and it's gotten him famous], his relations with his parents, extremely self-deprecating, the way he rhymes and the fact that he seems to say obscene shit for the fun of it but still makes it just funny enough for me to not dismiss as being immature.

I have Bastard, and heard Yonkers after Pitchfork posted it. Looking foreword to his LP, and I might look into the other Odd Future guys too sometime.


Hmm. My rap tastes are pretty mainstream (Lil wayne,eminem, birdman,etc) but I actually really like the songs i've heard so far by Tyler the Creator.


That's basically the reaction I've seen. I expect Tyler to push underground hip-hop into the mainstream view. And if my opinion matters for more than shit - I think Tyler is nothing less than absolute renaissance genius.

Also the OddFuture collective is not to be dismissed as "Slim Shady Shock Jocks" or as simply another horrorcore act.

They scope far beyond that and everything they touch is gold.


What I said wasn't a dismissal, and if you think Eminem's first major album used the Slim Shady thing to just say shocking stuff you probably never listened to it. There was always some real angst behind the shocking lines, just as there is with Tyler the Creator. And yet both artists do sometimes say shocking stuff just for the sake of fun rhymes as well.


Good synopsis.

"VCR" fits nicely with the obscene theme. And it will get stuck in your head, so just leave your rape on the dresser when you leave the house.


Oh, and "Bastard" shows some real troubled thoughts. The more I listen to this kid, the more artist I pick up.

I wanted to overlook him, but his stuff seems to come from a unique place, even for "underground" whatever.

And the "Yonkers" video is impressive.

(Geez, with as much groping as I'm doing, I should probably throw a "Free Earl" in there. But I won't.)


Hahahahahaha I'll throw a Fuck Steve Harvey out there. But I really just don't like that guy.


Oh no I'm a big fan of Eminem's Infinite - Marshall Mathers LP era.

Also, as far as checking out some of the rest of the collective - you can't go wrong with mellowhype... It's mellow AND hype, where can you go wrong :slight_smile: Earl has always been my favorite as far as raw lyricism though;


Renaissance= a revival or rebirth. Behold the Standard:

... and he doesn't swear at all. Imagine how much better this Tyler dude could be if he expanded his vocabulary.

Rebirth denied.


Believe me I am a hyooooooooooooooge fan of Rakim... Probably much more than you will ever be. However he ain't making music any more... and if he did... well, honestly I'm not sure it would hold up to my modern standards of hip-hop. If this is your MODERN standard for dope hip-hop you need not post anymore in this thread - you need a time machine.

Hip-Hop is constantly evolving. What was a dope multi in the past is a tiny part of somebodies internal rhyme scheme today. A dope hook becomes a dope sample. A dope sample becomes a building block to an even doper beat. Ect...

"That's why I always get respect from true soldiers
That laugh at the critics claiming every year: "Hip hop's over."
FUCK YOU, hip hop just started -
It's funny how the most nostalgic cats are the ones who were never part of it
But true veterans'll give dap to those who started it
Then humbly move the fuck on and come with that new retarded shit
New slang, new thought, new sound, new heart, you thought you hang
You clown, you don't, you drown
I won't dumb it down, I'm dumbing now for these rounds
I'm a live mothefucker plus I'm gunning for clowns
You're a mime motherfucker, don't be coming for pounds
Till you can break out of that invisible box, you're not down"

"Rookie cats talk about boom bap and golden ages
Pat themselves on the back for making that new outdated shit
But i've been putting out vinyl since '93 and never looked back once
At ya'll trying to chase me
You don't innovate because you can't innovate,
It's not a choice - despite what you might tell your boys"

Not Tyler but hip-hop lyrics very relevant to the... well... to the dumb ass fucking shit you just said. I'm not censoring myself out of politeness.

And I pick my words VERY carefully... Renaissance was in fact the exact word I wanted. Tyler will be the rebirth of dope Hip-Hop actually getting a play to the average persons ears. Something that hasn't happened in decades imo.


Another matter of what makes not only dope hip-hop, but true art is subject. Those making dope hip-hop in rakim's era... talked about how dope their hip-hop was - and it was fucking dope. at this time those making garbage rap talked about bitches and money and dancing or some other un-stimulating bullshit

In the 90's dope hip-hop mutated and took many different subject matters - thus the birth of the underground. at this time those making garbage rap talked about bitches and money and dancing or some other un-stimulating bullshit Today what subject matter is the at the cutting edge of hip-hop? Well I'll tell you what - it ain't bitches, dancing, or money... Or even shameless self promotion.


Always props to an act that can rock a stage. And these mother fuckers rock the stage to the foundation.