T Nation

OCD Nation

I sometimes wonder if this site has the right name…I would like to suggest ‘Obsessive-Compulsive Nation’. What I mean is, I see some people on this site micromanaging every area of their life, obsessing over minor minor details, and some of them missing the big picture. Where does being ‘self-disciplined’ end, and where does being obsessed begin?

We all know we should exercise and eat well. So most of us who visit this site do. I play rugby, lift weights and ride my mountain bike. I exercise virtually every day, usually more than once, but I do not do it because a program tells me to do it. I do it because I want to.

When I am hungry, I eat. When I feel restless, I exercise. A few times a year I eat cleaner than usual, when I feel my bodyfat is climbing. But usually I try to eat a lot of protein, and a lot of overall calories. I eat between 4 and 7 times a day.

General principles- that’s how I live. Surely a real T-man does whatever he wants! I have a feeling some of you do whatever you want, as long as eating what Berardi says to, and training like CW says to.

It seems from my reading that there are people on this site who eat by their alarm clock, weigh all their food, and write down everything they eat in a log. WTF? Even pro bodybuilders don’t do that, unless they are preparing for a contest. It seems very anal to me.

If I was a professional athlete looking to maximise every aspect of my performance, I might do that. But on this site we have people following cookie-cutter training programs to the letter, people waking up in the middle of the night to eat (WTF?), people counting how many glasses of water they drink in a day, people only eating 0.9 of a banana because the other 0.1 is too many carbs, peope surviving on only protein shakes for a whole month, people eating food they don’t like because it may help them gain, people never going out with their friends because they have to get up at 6 AM to train ‘Chest and Back, 10x3 style’ people arguing over whether CW’s programs are better than CT’s, -get a grip!

It seems to me from reading the posts of others on this site for the last four years or so, that those who are most obsessed are usually the skinny guys, too. The 165 pound fan-boys, those who follow training programs to the letter, write ‘Best Program Ever!’ whenever a new program is posted, and eat only clean foods are usually the guys who aren’t gaining.

The guys who know their shit, have internalized the principles of training, and train a bit free-style, and eat what they want, reasonably good, but not super-strict, and lots of it, those are the guys who are big.

So, does anyone else think this way?

[quote]deanosumo wrote:

So, does anyone else think this way?[/quote]

You shouldn’t even need to ask.

The one rule of Berardi’s that I really love - and the one that seems themost ignored around here - is the 90% rule.

I love my life. Check that. I love LIVING my life. I train hard, eat bigger than most, and try to get decent sleep. That’s it. And it works.

Unless you are a top level athlete, or something like that - why fixate on the small stuff that will make little to no difference in your life anyhow?

In other words: Great post, Deano. I agree 100%

[quote]rainjack wrote:
The one rule of Berardi’s that I really love - and the one that seems themost ignored around here - is the 90% rule.

I love my life. Check that. I love LIVING my life. I train hard, eat bigger than most, and try to get decent sleep. That’s it. And it works.

Unless you are a top level athlete, or something like that - why fixate on the small stuff that will make little to no difference in your life anyhow?

In other words: Great post, Deano. I agree 100%
[/quote]

It might make sense if most of these guys LOOKED the part, but the ones who usually act this way are the ones showing the least overall progress.

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
So, does anyone else think this way?[/quote]

Hopefully I’m not only one of three on this entire website that agrees with you.

There was a point and time, though, when I was as obsessive as some of your examples. It’s no coincidence that after I quit being so obesssive, I started making gains - big gains.

I am with you Deano.

Well thanks guys for your replies. Interesting that I didn’t get too many. Maybe I offended a few people. Interesting too who replied- older, bigger guys who I respect.

Well I have to agree 99% as well. Hell even I was guilty of the OCD. and since just easing back putting what I know to use and not getting caught in the minutia hell ive gained a ton of strength and put on 60+ lbs in a few years.

That said. I learned a ton from my time in the so called OCD state. I was all the time still busting my tail, spinning wheel a lot on reaching goals, like trying to stay uber lean and get Huge etc… Though the whole time I was learning diet. I was learning a lot on training, etc… I guess I need that over analysis to then later say WTF ease up and K.I.S.S and get down to business.

I think the difference many times between what I and many have done and a lot of what isd going on now is man they are getting OCD and to the point of not doing anything. I over analyzed sure but I learned a ton. one of the main things is that over analysis sucks in the end you need to eventually just back the hell off relax, and DO IT do what you know.

Sure keep reading keep learning but dont let that change everything about you what you do. get a base going training diet work hard at both and keep an open mind and try things.

We all need that learning time, but not to the point of not putting in the hard work. It seems now I think its a society thing, they are all looking for the easy, the quick, the painless way to get huge, strong, lean, reach a goal. That just isnt there. I dont care if you have a worthy lofty goal. Its going to take hard damn work and doing it.

OK lots of blabbing I agree and at points dont I love the info. the learning but dont let it cripple you. try one thing and try it complete it then try one more,

Out,
Good Thread
Phill

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It might make sense if most of these guys LOOKED the part, but the ones who usually act this way are the ones showing the least overall progress.[/quote]

A bigger expenditure of energy talking and thinking and planning for a program than actually adhering to the program.

I think people should be OCD when they first start anything. It’s the only way to kill old habits, and for some people it’s the only way to force something new into the routine of their life. If someone’s like these skinny fanboys 2 years after they started being that way, there’s a significant problem with that person.

From what I’ve seen going through the forums, I don’t really see a ton of that though. I think you’re interpreting new people who come in and have a significant amount of zealotry and then get over it as the same people over and over again.

I’m not saying there aren’t some here who remain in crazy no-gain fanboy limbo, but compared with every other website on the internet it’s so much better that it’s hard to be believed.

The OCD approach has done wonders for me. Im sure you guys are meeting atleast some minimum standard of training and eating to grow. I know i WASNT progressing and i didnt know why until i tracked what i ate, and how i trained.

I didnt squat, deadlift or do chins. I followed a cookie cutter program on here and made progress. I also wouldnt of done them until someone explained to me why beyond, “deads are important”

While i do agree you can get far by eating alot of clean food and lifting hard. It is essential. But some people have misconceptions as to what those are. Also that the further your progress the bar gets raised higher. I have this suspician that while some people have been training for years they really arnt that advanced. Still newbies. You would think that advanced lifters needed a little bit more to progress…

I also wonder why you guys are here. All you need to do is lift hard and eat clean and i havnt seen any of you participate in threads beyond, “why are we the only hardcore lifters here?”. Unless your getting something out of your complaining.

Its a part of the learning experience, get over it.

[quote]Beatnik wrote:
The OCD approach has done wonders for me. Im sure you guys are meeting atleast some minimum standard of training and eating to grow. I know i WASNT progressing and i didnt know why until i tracked what i ate, and how i trained.[/quote]

Good for you. From the beginning I was able to track my progress without going into the smallest aspect of every gram of protein or carbohydrates. While this becomes more and more important the more progress you make, especially in terms of refining that solid base of muscle mass that took years to build, I think some people may have absolutely no foundation at all as far as exercise.

Maybe they NEVER got involved in sports as a kid or NEVER watched other people bigger than them and how they trained. I will withold judgement as far as how that could possibly happen if someone truly had a solid goal in mind and believed they could learn from the people who have acheived more in the way in that goal.

[quote]
I didnt squat, deadlift or do chins. I followed a cookie cutter program on here and made progress. I also wouldnt of done them until someone explained to me why beyond, “deads are important”[/quote]

I don’t deadlift (I do many rowing movements in the place of it and I think my shoulders, traps and back are pretty developed from it). How important certain movements are is not set in stone. That is why getting your info from only one source is a MISTAKE. There are several ways to reach a goal. No one has a patent on the one right way for all people.

[quote]
While i do agree you can get far by eating alot of clean food and lifting hard. It is essential. But some people have misconceptions as to what those are.[/quote]

As to what ‘those’ are? What are you referring to? I think people are more likely to skip the basics assuming that it takes some over-complex approach when the answer is usually much simpler…especially in the beginning.

[quote]
Also that the further your progress the bar gets raised higher. I have this suspician that while some people have been training for years they really arnt that advanced. Still newbies. You would think that advanced lifters needed a little bit more to progress…[/quote]

That is exactly what we are stating here. There are MANY people who don’t seem to be making all that much progress even though they can quote certain authors by heart.

[quote]

I also wonder why you guys are here. All you need to do is lift hard and eat clean and i havnt seen any of you participate in threads beyond, “why are we the only hardcore lifters here?”. Unless your getting something out of your complaining.

Its a part of the learning experience, get over it.[/quote]

Why we are here? I’m here because this is supposed to be a place FOR SERIOUS WEIGHT TRAINERS TO CONGREGATE. Only recently has it become overrun with half serious people and Abercrombie wannabes. We are who this site was originally made for and many of us have been here since this site first went up in 2000-2001.

Beyond that, you are lying your ass off if you claim that the only time any of us respond is to say, “why are we the only hardcore lifters here?”. Why lie?

So no one has ever received an answer to a training question? I have NEVER typed out whole routines and given any personal experience or medical information? You know what you stated isn’t true…so why lie?

Sorry I’m late - I agree 90%. I think some people need more structure, but definitely alot of people obsess too much on the little things.

I think that as authors research deeper and deeper into specific areas (and thus, further away from the basics of lifting hard & eating and sleeping alot) their articles emphasise small details more and more. It’s not their fault, all researchers do it & should do it, but both they and the people who read their articles should periodically step back & place this new detailed info in context of the bigger overall picture. I like Dan John’s articles which are frequently along those lines.

Basically;
I got out 5 reps, but I think to be honest I could’ve gotten 6 or 7 if my head had’ve been in it better = BIG PROBLEM

One of the T-Nation cool tips was to add balsamic vinegar to carby meals but the shop didn’t have any = INCIDENTAL PROBLEM

Anyway, yeah I’m with you Sumo
(from a newer, smaller, younger guy).

i originally wrote a very large response. So ive cut it down to be readable. and its still large. I apologise.

There is a mantra being used on this forum. Its Lift heavy and eat alot. Its great. But its being thrown into posts that don’t really need it. There are people trying to be prof x who arnt.

Some of these questions should of been answered correctly. Whether the information is applied correctly or not is none of our damn business. The rest of us could of learnt something from the answers to those posts. Learning is what motivates alot us to workout more then anything else. Its fun. You would think serious lifters would be into the finer details and the seperate approaches rather then whether or not some newbie is following it.

Newbies have the learn it on their own. Everyone learns this way. No amount of internet prodding is going to change it.

[quote]
Beyond that, you are lying your ass off if you claim that the only time any of us respond is to say, “why are we the only hardcore lifters here?”. Why lie? [/quote]

I was not necessarily refering to the people in this posts, there was only a few when i posted. You have alot of decent posts, you have contributed. Though to be honest i can’t follow all of your postings as my time is limited - too many damn posts. Some people want to be you prof, and they are getting in the way of my learning and its pissing me off. I am sick of hearing the same mantra derail a perfectly good discussion on why.

Not so much you. There are less newbies asking hoenst questions then “hardcore” lifters spouting the “suck it up you pussy and work harder” posts. Who i have never seen back it up. Yet who gets flamed more?

As to why people are here. There are other forums, and if this isnt suitable for people they can leave :wink: Im not saying you should go (god no!) but i see alot of whinning about the forum that isnt going to change anything. Biotest could create a passworded forum for you experienced folk. But they havnt… why?

You can slap a “bodybuildings think tank” title on a forum, but it doesnt mean anything. Join a forum for the people and the posts, not the title. If the forum isnt for you… I think some people just like to complain.

Maybe you should ask for a sub-forum for vets. Read only to us average people.

I hope that explains my stance.

Food logs and self-discipline are tools.

The trick is to use the tools wisely instead of letting them run your life. At some point, because I’ve never been super lean, I’ll want to lean right out. I’ll probably have to track my consumption pretty closely to do it.

However, yes, I’ll agree too that I see a lot of people getting pretty damned anal about things, as if the detail level of analysis is the driving factor in progress.

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
The guys who know their shit, have internalized the principles of training, and train a bit free-style, and eat what they want, reasonably good, but not super-strict, and lots of it, those are the guys who are big.[/quote]

And are you “big” at only 28.2 BMI? Sorry, deano, but once I’m dieted down to the same bf % as you, I’ll still be thicker.

The big difference? I’ve trained for 1 1/2 years compared to your 10+

And that’s only at an estimated “60% OCD power rating”. Results ARE commiserate with performance.

That said, I do understand some people fall into an “analysis paralysis”, but that doesn’t seem to be the issue here, as you are discussing the actual performance of a set protocol. As long as they do the do, someone who plans more is not hurting their results.

In fact, as they say, “If you fail to plan then plan to fail.”

What a great thread.

I myself was stuck in the OCD state for a few years.

At one time I wanted to gain mass, be lean, run faster, and jump higher all at the same time. Uhh, not gonna happen.

I’ve learned that I don’t know shit so I should trust the coaches on this site. This is their life’s blood so why not trust them.

I’ve accepted the fact that “this” is a long process that takes hard work, a lot of time, and a lot of money. The more hard work, the more time, and the more money I dedicate to this, the faster my results.

From Dan John, I’ve leared to ask myself, “Is what I’m doing helping me achieve my goal?”. This question has become easier to answer the more knowledge I attain and the more defined my goal.

In my case, the reason I never progressed was because I had poorly defined goals, I thought I knew more than everybody else, and I didn’t follow the principles which everyone must follow to succeed in the game.

[quote]deanosumo wrote:
Went on a tirade[/quote]

Great post, Dean!

[quote]vroom wrote:
Food logs and self-discipline are tools.

The trick is to use the tools wisely instead of letting them run your life. At some point, because I’ve never been super lean, I’ll want to lean right out. I’ll probably have to track my consumption pretty closely to do it.

However, yes, I’ll agree too that I see a lot of people getting pretty damned anal about things, as if the detail level of analysis is the driving factor in progress.[/quote]

I tried to keep a food log and it wasnt really worth it for me. I have way too much going on to calculate what I’m eating at every meal. The only thing I worry about is getting enough protein. Thats about as far as I take it.

If you can do it more power to you.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Food logs and self-discipline are tools.

The trick is to use the tools wisely instead of letting them run your life. At some point, because I’ve never been super lean, I’ll want to lean right out. I’ll probably have to track my consumption pretty closely to do it.

However, yes, I’ll agree too that I see a lot of people getting pretty damned anal about things, as if the detail level of analysis is the driving factor in progress.[/quote]

I think Berardi is pretty emphatic about not falling into analysis paralysis.

Looking back over the last 6 years, or so, I can see periods when I was pretty damned anal.

But if one can grasp the simple concept that this is a lifestyle, and not a race - things will fall into perspective on their own.

A 145 pound kid is not going to be sporting a 220 pound frame anytime soon.

A 365 fat boy is not going to be sub 10% BF over the course of a summer.

But those that see the journey instead of over analyzing each step will usually make more progress faster.

The irony here - if you want to call it that - is that we are chastizing the anal retentive folks on here - when in real life, I would give up a testicle to have a conversation about training, or nutrition with someone that gave 1/10th the shit that some of these kiddos do here.

I cannot tell you how many times I get asked what my wife and I do in the back of our office every day. It is to the point now that I don’t even answer them because they don’t want to know what it takes.

[quote]Kailash wrote:
And are you “big” at only 28.2 BMI? Sorry, deano, but once I’m dieted down to the same bf % as you, I’ll still be thicker.

The big difference? I’ve trained for 1 1/2 years compared to your 10+

And that’s only at an estimated “60% OCD power rating”. Results ARE commiserate with performance.

That said, I do understand some people fall into an “analysis paralysis”, but that doesn’t seem to be the issue here, as you are discussing the actual performance of a set protocol. As long as they do the do, someone who plans more is not hurting their results.

In fact, as they say, “If you fail to plan then plan to fail.”[/quote]

Anyone using the BMI to prove anything needs to take a step back and think about what the hell they are doing.