T Nation

Observation: Levels Used

I have been checking this board for a few weeks now and I like it a lot. There are a lot of knowledgeable people and I feel comfortable asking questions. However the one thing I have observed is the assumption that you need loads of anabolics to grow. I was a national level NPC bodybuilder in the late 90’s and this assumption was not as ingrained then. I really think it has to do with the fact that most of the shit people are getting these days is plain garbage. Under dosed garbage that makes people believe they need 800mgs a week of test to grow.

I used to get real US made Delatestryl in 5cc bottles. That is test E. I used to use 300 mgs a week and grow like a weed with little sides. Bumping up the dose just seemed to increase the sides. I just do not think a lot of you are using high quality stuff. I know it’s not anyones fault, except the US govt, but it is a shame that we have to resort to buying anabolics packed in a catsup like wrapper just to ensure safe delivery. I guess what I am saying is try to find a good product and stick with it.

If it is real and correctly dosed you will be surprised what little you really need to grow. Personally I think the best option right now is converting the fina carts into an injectable. I wish I could convert the synovex but the procedure seems too involved.

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I partly agree as well. I remember back in my early 20’s always getting shit straight from the pharmacy. Remember Steris? Now, it always such a pain in the ass, and you can tell a lot of stuff out there is underdosed. Or maybe I’m just older. Hmmmm.


I also remember steris mbaina, however I also remember how heavily faked it was shortly after it gained in popularity.

There are many of us here that do brew our own so the actual concentration of our test mg/ml should be fairly accurate. This of course depends on how well we trust our powder source.

I would feel its very safe to assume that my last batch of enathate powder was of a very high quality. Will just have to see with the next one.

I also think that if I were to consume something along the lines of 300-400mg/wk that it would likely do next to nothing more than what I could accomplish with my natural test levels. Just IMHO of course.

Maybe I did just respond well but I knew many who got good results with 300-500 mgs of test a week. I know some probably do need more as every ones body is different. I just think its a bad assumption that you need 1000mgs of anabolics a week to see results. It is a terrible starting point for young guys coming here for their first info on anabolics. At least try lower doses and then bump it up if need be.

A lot of the sides that you see people complain about do not even manifest themselves until most hit a certain dose per week of anabolics. Thus, these sides could be eliminated for most by reducing the dose.

Without doubt or question your point is fair, valid and noted. I myself started with lower doses and have over the years graduated up to proportionally higher doses myself.
Problem with a dosage of 300 per se is once you minus the ester weight 300mg of Test E is really only about 210-215mg of Test. A high natural physiology can be in the 60-75mg a week neighborhood. So you really are only taking about 3x the natural amount and depending on your injection frequency you could be down to only double the physiological amount of test. Remember even 500mg of Enanthate is really only about 350-360mg of Test. That’s five time endogenous levels at peak but as they wane you get down towards maybe four times natural levels, depending of course on the individuals baseline.

I’m not saying more merely for more’s sake but as you inferred yourself there is a point where the sides start to overcome the benefits. While there is variation for certain, many people have limited or very controllable sides on 750mg of Test E a week and/or a total gear usage [orals et al] of 1000-1300mg a week. IMO this is about the point where you max the gains before the sides start to overpower you.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Also I think that at lower doses, synergy becomes more vital to achieve good results without sides.

For example, these days I consider proviron to be an essential part of a test-based cycle. It SHBG binding affinity acts as a ‘magnifier’ to the test you are using. Freeing up some of the test that would be bound and therefore inactive.

Masteron is also a very useful addittion for the same reason, as well as its androgenic effects on libido and strength.

Having said that though, you must have your bases covered when it comes to all the ‘standard’ supps, especially minerals and vitamins.

For example, I was not really experiencing much effect from my 500mg/wk of test cycle until I added in some ZMA. Yes I then started to get the vivid dreams etc, but I also started getting back the pump and fullness in the muscles that had been missing.

I ran out of ZMA recently and although it took a couple of weeks for the muscluar effects to decline, decline they did, though no other variable was introduced.


REALLY That IS interesting, i assume it has been spoken of here in another thread? I’ll search that. Vivid dreams? That is freaky dont ya think? But ZMA is dirt cheap, so i will have to get me some of that with my next cycle!


Next cycle? Joe you can and maybe should be on ZMA 365.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
Next cycle? Joe you can and maybe should be on ZMA 365.[/quote]

second this.

Good thread here, thanks for the dialogue you guys.