T Nation

OBL Video


#1

Okay, here's the thread...let the spin begin!

-- He wants us to vote for Kerry because Bush is a BADASS!

-- No, wait, he knows we'll think that way so he'd really prefer Bush in office!

-- But wait, he knew that we knew he'd know that, and as such, has planned this carefully and really wants Kerry in office.

-- Knowing it would be too unbelievable and would likely cause blowback, Karl Rove decided not to unveil OBL to the public and instead video taped OBL himself as the greatest October surprise in history!

-- (In truth) This video should actually benefit Kerry in that it reminds the world that this sick asshole OBL is still out there flexing his muscles.


#2

Read the polls man. Bush is WAY up when it comes to Iraq and terroism. Make your own conclusion.... WAY up.


#3

I don't know if this qualifies as spin or not, but just the fact that this asshole is out there acting as if he has any pull in our upcoming election should be enough to piss off even the most ardent partisan on either side.

Joe Piscapo, a Kerry backer, said as much in an interview on Cavuto today.

What struck me is that it sounded a lot like UBL had just finished watching F9-11.

Maybe someone is listening to Moore after all.


#4

Ah c'mon, RSU. OBL is just trying to scare you. You're not gonna get all panicky on account of a goat-herder, are ya? He's a pussy.


#5

No need for spin. It just doesn't help Kerry to have OBL repeat his campaign accusations against Bush.


#6

Great post from the Belmont Club on the OBL video:

http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/2004/10/osama-bin-ladens-surrender-proposal.html

Saturday, October 30, 2004
Osama Bin Laden's Surrender Proposal

Osama Bin Laden released a video whose transcript is given below.

[Begin OBL excerpt] "You American people, my speech to you is the best way to avoid another conflict about the war and its reasons and results. I am telling you security is an important pillar of human life. And free people don't let go of their security contrary to Bush's claims that we hate freedom. He should tell us why we didn't hit Sweden for instance. Its known that those who hate freedom don't have dignified souls.like the 19 who were blessed. But we fought you because we are free people, we don't sleep on our oppression. We want to regain the freedom of our Muslim nation as you spill our security, we spill your security.

I am so surprised by you. Although we are in the fourth year after the events of Sept 11, Bush is still practicing distortion and misleading on you, and obscuring the main reasons and therefore the reasons are still existing to repeat what happened before. I will tell you the reasons behind theses incidents.

I will be honest with you on the moment when the decision was taken to understand. We never thought of hitting the towers. But after we were so fed up, and we saw the oppression of the American Israeli coalition on our people in Palestine and Lebanon, it came to my mind and the incidents that really touched me directly goes back to 1982 and the following incidents. When the US permitted the Israelis to invade Lebanon with the assistance of the 6th fleet. In these hard moments, it occurred to me so many meanings I cant explain but it resulted in a general feeling of rejecting oppression and gave me a hard determination to punish the oppressors. While I was looking at the destroyed towers in Lebanon, it came to my mind to punish the oppressor the same way and destroy towers in the US to get a taste of what they tasted, and quit killing our children and women.

We didn't find difficulty dealing with Bush and his administration due to the similarity of his regime and the regimes in our countries. Whish half of them are ruled by military and the other half by sons of kings and presidents and our experience with them is long. Both parties are arrogant and stubborn and the greediness and taking money without right and that similarity appeared during the visits of Bush to the region while people from our side were impressed by the US and hoped that these visits would influence our countries. Here he is being influenced by these regimes, Royal and military. And was feeling jealous they were staying for decades in power stealing the nations finances without anybody overseeing them. So he transferred the oppression of freedom and tyranny to his son and they call it the Patriot Law to fight terrorism. He was bright in putting his sons as governors in states and he didn't forget to transfer his experience from the rulers of our region to Florida to falsify elections to benefit from it in critical times.

We agreed with Mohamed Atta, god bless him, to execute the whole operation in 20 minutes. Before Bush and his administration would pay attention and we never thought that the high commander of the US armies would leave 50 thousand of his citizens in both towers to face the horrors by themselves when they most needed him because it seemed to distract his attention from listening to the girl telling him about her goat butting was more important than paying attention to airplanes butting the towers which gave us three times the time to execute the operation thank god.

Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or Al Qaeda. Your security is in your hands. Each state that doesn't mess with our security has automatically secured their security." [End OBL excerpt]

It is important to notice what he has stopped saying in this speech. He has stopped talking about the restoration of the Global Caliphate. There is no more mention of the return of Andalusia. There is no more anticipation that Islam will sweep the world. He is no longer boasting that Americans run at the slightest wounds; that they are more cowardly than the Russians. He is not talking about future operations to swathe the world in fire but dwelling on past glories. He is basically saying if you leave us alone we will leave you alone. Though it is couched in his customary orbicular phraseology he is basically asking for time out.

The American answer to Osama's proposal will be given on Election Day. One response is to agree that the United States of America will henceforth act like Sweden, which is on track to become majority Islamic sometime after the middle of this century. The electorate best knows which candidate will serve this end; which candidate most promises to be European-like in attitude and they can choose that path with both eyes open. The electorate can strike that bargain and Osama may keep his word. The other course is to reject Osama's terms utterly; to recognize the pleading in his outwardly belligerent manner and reply that his fugitive existence; the loss of his sanctuaries; the annihilation of his men are but the merest foretaste of what is yet to come: to say that to enemies such as he, the initials 'US' will always mean Unconditional Surrender.

Osama has stated his terms. He awaits America's answer.


#7

Also, it seems OBL got a lot of comfort -- and some ideas -- from Fahrenheit 9/11 -- THanks Michael Moore...

http://www.nationalreview.com/thecorner/04_10_24_corner-archive.asp#044002

SECTS, LIES, AND VIDEOTAPE [Andrew Apostolou, Foundation for the Defense of Democracies]
In this latest video tape, Osama bin Laden repeats an old threat and tells a new lie.

BIN LADEN?S THREAT TO KILL AMERICANS
Bin Laden regards any American as a legitimate target, confirming that he is the ultimate, merciless terrorist.

Today, bin Laden threatened Americans ahead of the November 2 elections stating that "Your security is not in the hands of Kerry or Bush or al-Qaida. Your security is in your own hands."

Bin Laden has made this threat before. Back in January 1999, bin Laden said that "any American who pays taxes to his government" is a target.

In June 2002, al Qaeda spokesman Suleiman Abu Ghaith said that "We have the right to kill 4 million Americans - 2 million of them children - and to exile twice as many and wound and cripple hundreds of thousands. It is our right to fight them with chemical and biological weapons, so as to afflict them with the fatal maladies that have afflicted the Muslims because of the Americans' chemical and biological weapons."

BIN LADEN?S 9/11 LIE
Bin Laden insults Americans by attempting to blame the US government for the mass murder of 9/11. Bin Laden said today "It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the country would leave 50,000 citizens in the two towers to face those horrors alone ... because he thought listening to a child discussing her goats was more important."

Bin Laden is a liar, there was no advance warning of the 9/11 attacks and the US government had little time in which to respond.

Bin Laden has changed his position. Immediately after 9/11, bin Laden denied all responsibility for the terrorist attacks, stating in a September 28, 2001 interview with Ummat (a Pakistani newspaper) "I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States."

Yet in an undated video captured in Afghanistan in December 2001, bin Laden gruesomely admitted responsibility stating that "we calculated in advance the number of casualties from the enemy, who would be killed based on the position of the tower. We calculated that the floors that would be hit would be three or four floors. I was the most optimistic of them all."
Posted at 10:21 PM


#8

BTW, here's a link to the translated transcript:

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm


#9

Not sure what your comment has to do with the OBL tape. Care to expound?


#10

Oh God! Does he have a DVD player in the "cave" Cheney still imagines him in?


#11

BB you are correct. You either defeat them or appease them.

Only the naive would make peace with a murderer and terrorist.


#12

No - probably just a vcr and a small TV.

If was truly the brave man he fashions himself to be, why all the hiding? Why not come out and rally his holy warriors?


#13

Gee, how about, because he doesn't have to and coming out in public could get him killed? Not a good enough answer? What the hell do you think the TAPE is for? This guy is clearly in good health, has the facilities to record this s'hit professionally and didn't look like he was sweating at all...so I am guessing air conditioning. Notice the lights? ELECTRICITY. The supposed focus of all of the deaths, murders, and explosions is still alive and well...and this makes Bush look good? How? Bin Laden probably watches more FOX news than the most staunch republican yet you all blame F-911 for his comments? Simply retarded.


#14

He wants to live!

What do you all think of the quality of the video. It is apparent that he's not in some cave like Cheney still insists. He may not have been in a studio, but the lighting, the sound, the quality of video seems such that some production effort was put into the video. This wasn't self made.

Where is this fucker?


#15

OBL just brings terrorism to the front page. This can only help Bush in his re-election. Just like this last weeks "missing explosives" story; it only brought Iraq to the front page and helped Bush.


#16

RSU,

"(In truth) This video should actually benefit Kerry in that it reminds the world that this sick asshole OBL is still out there flexing his muscles."

How? It should remind people that:

a. OBL is a sick asshole out there flexing his muscles

b. all the Left wants to do is apologize to him for all the bad things we did to him and that even though he ordered the attacks of 9/11, it was actually our fault he ordered the attacks

Unless you are drunk on Chomsky, I don't see how the reinforcement of how monstrous OBL is can benefit a man who represents an attitude and a following of appeasement.

When Americans see a demon like OBL, their instinct is retribution, not apologism. I personally think it hurts Kerry, but I don't think it will change many votes.


#17

ProfX -

Retarded? I never said it would benefit either of the candidates. Check my posts. I believe I said that, regardless of political slant, everyone should be pissed that this asshole is making tapes.

Have you actually seen the tape? My point was that he referenced the same things that Moore focused on.

My second post was sarcasm. S-A-R-C-A-S-M.

It seems that if he were the hero to the masses that he wants to be, a little martyrdom might further the cause.

Retarded? - I know you are, but what am I?


#18

Wooaaah now buddy,
As a member of your beloved left wing, I tend to agree with Kerry when he rambles on that repetitive promise to "hunt down" the terrorists and kill them. KILL THEM. That is the view of the vast majority of the "left" in the US.
Now of course, some people on both sides of the political fence like to investigate history: what makes osama tick? what did the US do in the past, right, wrong or neutral, that allowed him the ability to attack us? what did the US do, or not do, to make many muslims in other countries willing to lay their lives down to kill us?
To investigate such things is not to appologize, it is to prevent them from happening again, and discover ways to win the current war on terror. And its not exactly like the US has a perfect track record with international relations eh? I wouldn't mind it being improved.


#19

Janders,

"I tend to agree with Kerry when he rambles on that repetitive promise to "hunt down" the terrorists and kill them. KILL THEM."

Frankly, I don't. I think Kerry would serve up the occasional indictment. Hunt them down and kill them? I suspect not. The Left is practically allergic to such macho declarations - such an robust approach is likely to offend someone, somewhere, so it is probably off the table for the Left. Tough talk like 'hunt them down and kill them' usually gets satirized on a left-wing t-shirt somewhere making fun of cowboys and men with testicles.

"To investigate such things is not to appologize"

Certainly not. Investigating such things is a way of understanding and preventing them. But there are two separate things here: investigating and acting. I believe Kerry would investigate. But would he act after his investigation? Again, I doubt it - too many participants in the 'global test' pool that don't share our interests.

"And its not exactly like the US has a perfect track record with international relations eh? I wouldn't mind it being improved."

Nor would I. But US foreign policy didn't create Islamism. But I do believe that US foreign policy has made it grow, but not because of the usual imperialism garbage, but because we we've been too soft on it for the past 25 years.

It's time to stop pretending one society is just as good as another and reflexively blaming the 'overdog'. I don't think Kerry has that attitude, and thusly, I won't vote for him.


#20

How does it help Bush if the viewer sees the missing explosives as a further indication of the slipshod approach that was taken? Or, if the viewer was already against the war, seeing coverage of it reminds them how angry they are that Bush drove their country to this senseless war.

Regarding OBL, seeing the video may just remind the public that the dude is still running around, apparently doing fairly well, while we're spending money and lives in Iraq.

Perhaps it's only you that has thoughts like you describe, not Joe Voter.