[quote]Higher Game wrote:
You guys still don’t get it. Obesity affects more than just lazy fools; it affects their children, their family, and the whole economy. It is a federal issue because it drags down all of society, just like drugs. The libertarian stance simply doesn’t work with obesity.
All of society would be better off if things like TV dinners, restaurant food, etc were regulated to higher standards, since home cooking is very quickly becoming a luxury only the rich or single can enjoy.
In the very long run, the solution is to end the overpopulation crisis and create a society where a single income can support a whole family, just the way it used to be, but for right now, we need regulations on our food quality to keep America healthy.[/quote]
[quote]nephorm wrote:
Higher Game wrote:
You guys still don’t get it. Obesity affects more than just lazy fools; it affects their children, their family, and the whole economy. It is a federal issue because it drags down all of society, just like drugs. The libertarian stance simply doesn’t work with obesity.
Drugs are not a constitutionally federal issue where they are not sold or transported for sale between states. Neither are food choices. Just because the federal government made a power grab years ago doesn’t justify more power grabs now.
I see nowhere in the tenth amendment that obesity can be legislated on the federal level because it “drags down all of society.” That sort of argument can be used for anything you dislike, since everything is interrelated to some extent.
And what you are saying is that the “libertarian stance” doesn’t work with any problem you dislike. Leave that freedom stuff for the unimportant issues. [/quote]
While I often disagree with the libertarian stance I think we need a heavy dose of libertarianism in the food industry. Too many government subsidies for things like corn are fueling the obesity epidemic.
The government should do less meddling in that market and stick to monitoring food for safety and compliance with labelling etc.
[quote]thomas.galvin wrote:
Higher Game wrote:
You guys still don’t get it. Obesity affects more than just lazy fools; it affects their children, their family, and the whole economy. It is a federal issue because it drags down all of society, just like drugs. The libertarian stance simply doesn’t work with obesity.
The problem with a Federal solution is that it becomes a single point of failure. You let some guy in Washington “solve” this problem and you’ll see subsidies for high-carb, moderate-protein, low-fat diets, goals based on BMI instead of waist-to-height ratio or body fat percentage, and exercise recommendations that include “cardio” and “more cardio.”
The problem will not be solved, and taxpayer money will be wasted, but at least everyone can feel like they’re “doing something.”[/quote]
Higher Game is just outlining some basic sociology principles. In poor and impoverished ares there is a higher density of fast-food restaurants. The
I agree that the most important problem is people making poor choices for themselves, but to say that it is ALL up to them is not entirely correct.
�??More convenient access likely leads to the increased consumption of fast food in these populations,�?? says study author Jason Block, M.D., M.P.H., of Brigham and Women�??s Hospital in Boston…
Block and colleagues used computer software to map out and analyze the placement of New Orleans fast food restaurants such as Church�??s Chicken, Pizza Hut, Subway, Burger King, and Taco Bell. They found that predominantly black neighborhoods had 2.4 fast food restaurants per square mile, while white neighborhoods only had 1.5 restaurants per square mile…
[quote]youngguns516 wrote:
I agree that the most important problem is people making poor choices for themselves, but to say that it is ALL up to them is not entirely correct.
�??More convenient access likely leads to the increased consumption of fast food in these populations,�?? says study author Jason Block, M.D., M.P.H., of Brigham and Women�??s Hospital in Boston…
Block and colleagues used computer software to map out and analyze the placement of New Orleans fast food restaurants such as Church�??s Chicken, Pizza Hut, Subway, Burger King, and Taco Bell. They found that predominantly black neighborhoods had 2.4 fast food restaurants per square mile, while white neighborhoods only had 1.5 restaurants per square mile…
[/quote]
Kind of a chicken-and-egg thing here. Are there more fast food places because poor people like fast food, or do poor people like fast food because it’s more readily available? Probably both.
Regardless, it still comes down to individual choice. Off the top of my head, there is a Burger King, McDonalds, Dunkin Donuts, Arby’s, Little Ceaser’s, Subway, KFC, and two other pizza shops in the five miles between my office and my front door. None of that stops me from going to Price Chopper and shopping around the outside.
As much as most of us hate it the government must do something about obesity (I don’t have any good answers, tax on junk food to start?). The US government is the largest provider of health insurance in this country, financed by our taxes.
The cost of providing health care for smokers is chump change compared to what it costs for the obese. In many cases, a smoker smokes for 30-40 years without many problems, then the cancer comes and in a year they’re dead. An obese person will have joint, heart, diabetes, etc for many years until one of them finally kills them.
What if the government quit providing health care to people with self induced illnesses such as diabetes mellitus and emphasema? Would that make people think harder about what they were doing to themselves when they hear stories about how terribly someone died because they didn’t have healthcare?
As far as the old impoverished communities have more fast food and less fresh veggies goes- I did a study of that in college. It is true. This past winter I built the refrigeration system in a Save-A-Lot in an impoverished area, and true to form there was a greater allocation of space to frozen foods and prepared foods than there were to fresh meats, fruits and veggies.
It’s an observable fact.
Heres another. YOU DON"T WASTE MONEY TRYING TO SELL STUFF TO PEOPLE WHO AREN’T GOING TO BUY IT!
If the fresh foods were flying out of the cases, they would be restocked and more space would be allocated for their availability. It realy is that simple.
It’s not some high minded ideology that requires study in the halls of academia. It’s a simple fact- People make bad choices that affect their lives in a bad way.
They buy and eat shit food, get fat, and suffer for it.
Why should the government and ultimately us have to do anything about it?
Who says anything Can be done about it?
I mean shit, I was told on the last page by someone who is supposedly concerned about it that “It’s not worth the time to prepare a good meal.”.
What compelling information can you provide to change the behavior of people who actualy don’t give a fuck?
In my opinion, a individual should use his wallet to change the business model of said companies. Political influence and “solutions” are only campaign slogans spoken by people who stand to lose if this type of food were suddenly taken from the supply.
Spend your money on co-ops, local farmers and ranchers and leave the rest of the population alone…if they don’t want to look and feel like the rest of us, so be it. We need some herd thinning anyhow.
[quote]tveddy wrote:
I think that the solution lies more in the school systems. When are state colleges going to require nutrition classes? When are these nutrition classes going to become a science? right now nutrition classes amount to reading an outdated text book written by a fat woman that thinks she knows nutrition because she has a phd in chemistry. Its not the same. Where the government needs to regulate is the standards to which nutritional information is taught. Except it would help if instead of pushing hi carb low fat, they got their shit together.[/quote]
I agree. Public schools were horrible for serving the lowest grade meats possible with deep fried curly fries or powdered mashed potatoes while I was a student.
Universities seem to be making changes though. Mine just built a new cafeteria and had a nutritionist design color coded meal plans. They have three different plans with different nutritional requirements met by each one and label each item offered by the corresponding color of each plan.
They give out fliers describing each nutrition plan and how to use them. Hopefully they guidelines will keep people healthy and teach them about nutrition for later in life too.
