Obama's Healthcare Plan

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Sent to me via email today:

A Peek Inside the ObamaCare Bill

Chairman Zero wants to ram his gargantuan healthcare bill down our throats before anyone realizes what’s in it. What doesn’t he want us to see? Some examples, from a quick inventory by Family Security Matters http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.3815/pub_detail.asp :

Pg 22 of the HC Bill mandates the Government will audit books of all employers that self insure.
Pg 30 Sec 123 of HC bill â?? a Government committee (good luck with that!) will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.
Pg 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill â?? YOUR HEALTHCARE WILL BE RATIONED!
Pg 42 of HC Bill â?? The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you.
PG 50 Section 152 in HC bill â?? HC will be provided t o ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise.
Pg 58 HC Bill â?? Government will have real-time access to individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!
Pg 59 HC Bill lines 21-24 Government will have direct access to your bank accts for election funds transfer.
PG 65 Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations (read: ACORN).
Pg 72 Lines 8-14 Government will create an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.
PG 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill â?? Government mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example â?? Translation for illegal aliens.
Pg 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18 The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.
PG 85 Line 7 HC Bill â?? Specifics of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members â?? your Health care WILL be rationed.
PG 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill â?? Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.
pg 124 lines 24-25 HC No company can sue Government on price fixing. No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.
pg 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill â?? Doctors/ AMA â?? The Government will tell YOU what you can earn.
Pg 145 Line 15-17 An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.
Pg 126 Lines 22-25 Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.
Pg 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay.)
Pg 195 HC Bill -officers & employees of HC Admin (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.
PG 203 Line 14-15 HC â?? “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax” Yes, it says that.
Pg 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.
Pg 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill â?? Doctors â?? doesn’t matter what specialty â?? will all be paid the same.
PG 253 Line 10-18 Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally, value of humans.
PG 265 Sec 1131 Government mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.
Pg 317 L 13-20 OMG!! PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Government tells Doctors what/how m uch they can own.
Pg 317-318 lines 21-25,1-3 PROHIBITION on expansion â?? Government will mandate hospitals cannot expand.
Pg 354 Sec 1177 â?? Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!
PG 425 Lines 4-12 Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations. Think Senior Citizens end of life prodding.
PG 425 Lines 22-25, 426 Lines 1-3 Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in how to die.
PG 427 Lines 15-24 Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends.
PG 429 Lines 10-12 “advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!
Page 472 Lines 14-17 PAYMENT TO COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATION. 1 monthly payment to a community-based organization. (Like ACORN?)

There’s plenty more. See for yourself: PDF http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills&docid=f:h3200ih.pdf .
This bill would drive unemployment, taxes, and the deficit through the stratosphere. It would turn hospitals into the DMV, dramatically reduce our access to healthcare, let bureaucratic slime decide when it’s time for us to die, and gua rantee that no one in his right mind goes to medical school. As for the damage this would do to individual liberty â?? let’s just say that any doubts about the Moonbat Messiah being a socialist have been put to rest.
If this nightmare bill isn’t Obama’s Waterloo, then it’s America’s.
[/quote]

If this passes, we need to get the lynch mob ready. That’s what the 2nd Amendment is for, this shit right here.

“A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have.”

-Thomas Jefferson

22

I was pleased to see some clips of a town hall meeting in Philly, where the people really grilled the politicians who were lobbying for the health care bill to pass. Some political moron stood on stage and talked about how the passage of this bill would create 6 billion in revenue LOL. He was booed off stage, and had to leave from the melee that was about to begin. I am proud to see people, standing up for themselves and the rest of us, loud and strong.

A woman in the crowd talked about how Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security are all broken, and how this government can’t even do a cash for clunkers program without botching it up. Also if these politicians would be willing to be put on this very health care program that they offer every day Americans, which left those politicians with a “deer in headlights” look on their faces LOL.

Thank you people, for those who speak up, and say “No you won’t.” If there is a townhall meeting in my area, I will probably be the first one escorted out, by every security officer available.

23

During my father’s last year of life, he had surgery to repair his bladder (he had bladder cancer which eventually spread). He had surgery at Kaiser Permanente, and before he was able to walk, the hospital was making plans for his discharge. My brother and I had the SHIT FIT OF ALL TIME, when I heard of this nonsense. When I asked the charge nurse why is he being discharged when he can’t even walk, she replied to me that it was to save money since the insurance said they would not pay for a longer stay. I grabbed the collar of his punk ass doctor and told him, I work in a hospital and know how it works, you are not kicking my dad out of here until he is ready. He got an extra 5 days to heal and was able to walk out of the hospital.

I can’t tell you how many times I have seen people discharged early or neglected treatment due to costs, it’s a slap in the face to be honest. I think something in health care needs to change, but this madness Obama is proposing is NOT it.

24

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
During my father’s last year of life, he had surgery to repair his bladder (he had bladder cancer which eventually spread). He had surgery at Kaiser Permanente, and before he was able to walk, the hospital was making plans for his discharge. My brother and I had the SHIT FIT OF ALL TIME, when I heard of this nonsense. When I asked the charge nurse why is he being discharged when he can’t even walk, she replied to me that it was to save money since the insurance said they would not pay for a longer stay. I grabbed the collar of his punk ass doctor and told him, I work in a hospital and know how it works, you are not kicking my dad out of here until he is ready. He got an extra 5 days to heal and was able to walk out of the hospital.

I can’t tell you how many times I have seen people discharged early or neglected treatment due to costs, it’s a slap in the face to be honest. I think something in health care needs to change, but this madness Obama is proposing is NOT it. [/quote]

Kaiser certainly comes to mind when you think of government health care. My wife’s grandmother was recently allowed to fall twice in teh hospital. She started having seizures after hitting her head during the falls, which induced three massive strokes. She’s miraculously recovering, but inattentive care is what you get under that sort of a scheme.

Oh, they also damaged my brother’s brain when they delivered him about 25 years ago.

Anyone who’s dealt with Kaiser is justifiably terrified by the idea of the Coalition of the Good and the Great in Washington controlling who gets what care.

I might add that there will be more affirmative action medical school admissions under this bill.

25

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Has anyone been following this closely? I have been so busy and only slowed down this past week and haven’t had a chance to read up on it the way I should.

The way I see it there are two issues to be concerned with:

  1. Increased cost for most.

  2. Less effective health care.

I am not so concerned with #1, though I know many are. A part of me does think that everyone should have healhcare and I am not so concerned with having to pay a little more for the poorest to have it. #2 does concern me. The healthcare of the people financing the whole damn thing should NOT suffer. So, how about #2? Are benefits and ability to obtain care going to be compromised under this plan?[/quote]

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The gubment can’t do anything right or on budget and this bill scares the hell out of me.

If it passes, this country is in deep shit because gubment entitlement programs are seldom undone.

26

[quote]pushharder wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What percentage of health care costs are generated in the last year of life?

TONS.

Makes you wonder how AARP, a blatantly “progressive”, i.e., statist organization, can lobby FOR this bill when it is obvious to anyone that many of its elder members are headed to premature deletion under the provisions of the bill.[/quote]

AARP is primarily an insurance company. The rest is window-dressing.

28

[quote]pushharder wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
pushharder wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What percentage of health care costs are generated in the last year of life?

TONS.

Makes you wonder how AARP, a blatantly “progressive”, i.e., statist organization, can lobby FOR this bill when it is obvious to anyone that many of its elder members are headed to premature deletion under the provisions of the bill.

AARP is primarily an insurance company. The rest is window-dressing.

Whether or not that’s the case they have millions and millions of members and carry a fair amount of influence. And national health care will inevitably kick their members right in their collective nuts. That makes them a disingenuous, ineffective (for their members true well-being) organization at best and downright traitorous and despicable at worst.[/quote]

THe boldface part fills the definition of “insurance company.”

30

[quote]pushharder wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
pushharder wrote:
DrSkeptix wrote:
pushharder wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What percentage of health care costs are generated in the last year of life?

TONS.

Makes you wonder how AARP, a blatantly “progressive”, i.e., statist organization, can lobby FOR this bill when it is obvious to anyone that many of its elder members are headed to premature deletion under the provisions of the bill.

AARP is primarily an insurance company. The rest is window-dressing.

Whether or not that’s the case they have millions and millions of members and carry a fair amount of influence. And national health care will inevitably kick their members right in their collective nuts. That makes them a disingenuous, ineffective (for their members true well-being) organization at best and downright traitorous and despicable at worst.

THe boldface part fills the definition of “insurance company.”

I understand you must dislike insurance companies but again that still fails to address WHY they would lobby FOR this bill.[/quote]

Where in this bill do you see restraints on current insurance company practice?

AARP also invites people 55 and older.
They sell MediCare secondary and other supplemental insurance, and their products co-exist and depend upon government plans; I bet they will find a way to be comfortable with a “public option.”
Imagine “volume.” If there is to be an increase in coverage–by coercion, taxation or tax incentives–insurance companies increase the volume of premiums without much in the way of increased overhead. I have not heard that the payout ratio will be fixed by law, so marginal profit may rise substantially.
Last, as I alluded to in the other thread, the “business plan” of indemnity insurance mutated after 1994. Previously the payout ratio was close to 1.0; i.e., they expected to pay out nearly all the premium income, relying on low risk investments and interest for income. Currently, insurance companies payout considerably less. (By denying care and delaying payments, stock prices soared and the CEOs reaped a windfall; many Blue Double Cross execs have taken home more than $10 million in income in selected years recently.)

AARP may do quite well in this environment.

31

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
I remain interested in #1, because costs are not static, and will get worse - supply and demand inevitably commands that more health consumers will be chasing more health care services, and there is no provision in the current health care plan that deals with this unavoidable problem.

Take a snapshot of our aggregate health “profile”, for example - a generally unhealthy society that is entirely too dependent on consuming acute health care resources to get healthier. While I don’t support a public plan for a number of reasons, I am perfectly willing to admit I would “less against it” in the right circumstances - a society that was generally healthy and did as much as it could independently to get and remain healthy before dipping into health care resources.

As in, a society that generally ate right, exercised, had low bad habits, and treated the health care system as a “last resort” to getting healthy would be a better candidate for a public health care program. We don’t have that.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree. However, like I said in another thread- you can’t force people to be healthy.

This being the… well, bodybuilding site that it is, I think its a safe bet that most of us here use the health care system far less than the general public does. But as this site is a very minuscule part of the web, we are a very minuscule portion of the population. I don’t see this as a “Fixable” problem.

[quote]
As for #2, I have problems with this as well, because it can’t be untangled from #1 - as costs inevitably skyrocket, the quality and availability of care will go down - setting aside the quite obvious problem noted commonly that a health care system run by the equivalent of the DMV would be a disaster.[/quote]

But costs are skyrocketing right now anyway. They are going up 20 percent a year, and the costs are directly responsible for the raise in tax increases on property in NJ.

If you were talking universal health care, I would say you’d be right. I don’t like that idea either. However, simply having a government option for the uninsured, which would, at the very least, cut down on the charity cases that NEVER get repaid… I still don’t think it will cost more than the current system we have now.

32

[quote]James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.
[/quote]

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.

33

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.[/quote]

The quality is the greatest in the world.

35

[quote]pushharder wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.

FI, that statement is simply asinine beyond all words. You totally discredit yourself from having your opinions even remotely considered on this subject when you make these nonsensical statements. Now step back, take a deep breath and reevaluate what you said.[/quote]

LOL! What did you expect from him.

36

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.[/quote]

The problem is , it can and will unless fixed

37

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.

The problem is , it can and will unless fixed[/quote]

I have great health care. Please don’t fix what is not broken.

That said, your regulators are broken and need to be “fixed”.

38

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.

The problem is , it can and will unless fixed

I have great health care. Please don’t fix what is not broken.

That said, your regulators are broken and need to be “fixed”.[/quote]

Tell me about your health care

39

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.[/quote]

Bullshit…The health care in the country is excellent. The system is fucked up, but you haven’t seen fucked up until the governement runs it. That will make this look like a paradise.

Have you seen the bill? I haven’t read the 1017 pages of it, but I have cross referenced the criticisms in the actual bill and it’s scary.
It forces people to get insurance whether they want it or not. It shoves you in to the system. This is bad stuff.

Health care needs to be addressed, but not this way. First there are laws already in place that need to be enforced. Second, class action lawsuits need to be reeled in. Third the price gouging must be punished. There is much to be done, but as fucked up as medicare, social security, and welfare are, there is no way the governement is going to do this right.

This bill needs the shredder. There is not one thing good about it.

40

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
James_T_Kirk wrote:

The quality of healthcare in this country will deteriorate a a geometric rate.

The quality of health care sucks in this country as is. It can’t deteriorate much farther.

The problem is , it can and will unless fixed

I have great health care. Please don’t fix what is not broken.

That said, your regulators are broken and need to be “fixed”.

Tell me about your health care [/quote]

It is the same kind health care as most people have except I pay for it myself and have a direct relationship with our doctor. Also, my wife prefers to see a naturopath (which typically isn’t covered under most HMOs). I require no permission from an HMO to seek specific care and it is cheaper in the long run because I am able to save and invest my money instead of having someone else manage it for me. Also, this system forces my family to be much more careful about our daily lives.

Since I have been able to save over the last two years from not having any coverage I have put every penny that I would have normally paid toward coverage to a personal “HSA”. Luckily, I have not had to use any of it for an emergency. The thing that is tricky is that I do not look at this pool of money as a traditional savings because I know I need to always keep a large portion of this money around just in case – and even then I might not have enough.

If the US got rid of many of the regulations on the health care industry prices would be cheaper and we would not need “coverage”.

It is a simple case of supply not meeting demand. The are many powerful interests that seek to restrict the supply via protective regulations and thus these services become very expensive.