Obama's Free Community College Plan

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]tedro wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Finally three, that if the President wants to throw a few trillion dollars at a program which will do nothing more than raise the general level of American mediocrity a few degrees, why not use it to give scholarships to the really exceptional students who might not be able to attend first-class universities?
[/quote]

That’s an easy one. This country cares far more about bringing the bottom up a notch or two than helping the exceptional excel.[/quote]

Why do the exceptional need help to excel?[/quote]

Our public school system does nothing to help the truly gifted to excel. Although they will rise to the top on their own given their material, they are bumping their head on a ceiling because the teachers have to try to teach the middle third of the class while the bottom third goes to their own classes that help them to get through with tons of government funding. Gifted programs on the other hand are some of the more woefully underfunded programs and are usually quite pitiful in their material. Not always the case, but I have seen that situation far more than I haven’t. Highly gifted kids that come from homes that cant afford to send their kids to good academies are left to languish in mediocrity. If you know people who are teachers, a lot of them will tell you how they wish they could do more for certain kids but know that if they made the material hard enough to challenge those students, the others who are barely keeping their heads above water as is would not stand a chance.

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
No philosophy or women’s studies degrees.[/quote]

Ok. I’m a little butt-hurt over grouping these two together.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]Steel Nation wrote:

[quote]tedro wrote:

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Finally three, that if the President wants to throw a few trillion dollars at a program which will do nothing more than raise the general level of American mediocrity a few degrees, why not use it to give scholarships to the really exceptional students who might not be able to attend first-class universities?
[/quote]

That’s an easy one. This country cares far more about bringing the bottom up a notch or two than helping the exceptional excel.[/quote]

Why do the exceptional need help to excel?[/quote]

Our public school system does nothing to help the truly gifted to excel. Although they will rise to the top on their own given their material, they are bumping their head on a ceiling because the teachers have to try to teach the middle third of the class while the bottom third goes to their own classes that help them to get through with tons of government funding. Gifted programs on the other hand are some of the more woefully underfunded programs and are usually quite pitiful in their material. Not always the case, but I have seen that situation far more than I haven’t. Highly gifted kids that come from homes that cant afford to send their kids to good academies are left to languish in mediocrity. If you know people who are teachers, a lot of them will tell you how they wish they could do more for certain kids but know that if they made the material hard enough to challenge those students, the others who are barely keeping their heads above water as is would not stand a chance.
[/quote]

Autodidacts have already found a solution.

The purpose of education is to make schooling irrelevant.

[quote][quote]jbpick86 wrote:

Why do the exceptional need help to excel?[/quote]

Our public school system does nothing to help the truly gifted to excel. Although they will rise to the top on their own given their material, they are bumping their head on a ceiling because the teachers have to try to teach the middle third of the class while the bottom third goes to their own classes that help them to get through with tons of government funding. Gifted programs on the other hand are some of the more woefully underfunded programs and are usually quite pitiful in their material. Not always the case, but I have seen that situation far more than I haven’t. Highly gifted kids that come from homes that cant afford to send their kids to good academies are left to languish in mediocrity. If you know people who are teachers, a lot of them will tell you how they wish they could do more for certain kids but know that if they made the material hard enough to challenge those students, the others who are barely keeping their heads above water as is would not stand a chance.
[/quote]

This. Lack of parental involvement and access is not limited to the low income, below average student. Do you know how many gifted kids fly under the radar?

Test scores in this country aren’t low because the median student does any better or worse here than in other countries, they are low because we don’t encourage the exceptional students to skew the results higher.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
In a generation or two you’ll need a Ph.D. to be competitive, undergrad degrees are already a dime a dozen.
[/quote]

you already need a masters degree.

Why not put the money towards making our high schools better?
-because people are brainwashed into thinking college = success

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
In a generation or two you’ll need a Ph.D. to be competitive, undergrad degrees are already a dime a dozen.
[/quote]

you already need a masters degree.

Why not put the money towards making our high schools better?
-because people are brainwashed into thinking college = success [/quote]

I’m not sure we’re quite at a Masters requirement yet, but we’re certainly pretty darn close.

I’d also rather see the money spent, if it’s going to be spent, on improving public schools. Of course most of the $70B would just go into administrative pockets…

How long before community college becomes mandatory?

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
No philosophy or women’s studies degrees.[/quote]

Ok. I’m a little butt-hurt over grouping these two together.
[/quote]

I was told by an international law professor that philosophy students make for some of the best lawyers. Apparently, they are among the best performers on the LSAT.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
No philosophy or women’s studies degrees.[/quote]

Ok. I’m a little butt-hurt over grouping these two together.
[/quote]

I was told by an international law professor that philosophy students make for some of the best lawyers. Apparently, they are among the best performers on the LSAT.[/quote]

I’m in faculty of science, and find that most classes lack any depth of thought. It’s more facts at face value than critical thinking or exploration.

On a related note: I’ve been thinking about how much better our healthcare system would be if doctors had to be in school for a decade longer than they do now.

[quote]NickViar wrote:
On a related note: I’ve been thinking about how much better our healthcare system would be if doctors had to be in school for a decade longer than they do now.[/quote]

You crazy.

We need more doctors and less schooling for them. It shouldn’t take that long to educate people how to remove sickness.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
On a related note: I’ve been thinking about how much better our healthcare system would be if doctors had to be in school for a decade longer than they do now.[/quote]

You crazy.

We need more doctors and less schooling for them. It shouldn’t take that long to educate people how to remove sickness.[/quote]

Oh, then maybe just require a two-year degree to become a medical doctor. I don’t know…I have a feeling that there’s not a direct relation between years of schooling and the quality of care a person may provide. Luckily for me, the state’s there to decide for me when a person may render quality medical care.

More on topic: Why not just mandate two extra years of high school? Four? Would that not accomplish the same thing?

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
On a related note: I’ve been thinking about how much better our healthcare system would be if doctors had to be in school for a decade longer than they do now.[/quote]

You crazy.

We need more doctors and less schooling for them. It shouldn’t take that long to educate people how to remove sickness.[/quote]

Oh, then maybe just require a two-year degree to become a medical doctor. I don’t know…I have a feeling that there’s not a direct relation between years of schooling and the quality of care a person may provide. Luckily for me, the state’s there to decide for me when a person may render quality medical care.

More on topic: Why not just mandate two extra years of high school? Four? Would that not accomplish the same thing? [/quote]

If a person needs “more school” then that is just an admission it doesn’t work as advertised.

Why does it take 13 years to indoctrinate a child?

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]jjackkrash wrote:

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
No philosophy or women’s studies degrees.[/quote]

Ok. I’m a little butt-hurt over grouping these two together.
[/quote]

I was told by an international law professor that philosophy students make for some of the best lawyers. Apparently, they are among the best performers on the LSAT.[/quote]

On second thought, you are likely correct. I can see how logic, reasoning and the like would be handy in critical thinking and debate.

I stand by my take of Feminist Studies courses.

Nothing is free in life, except for the air we take into our lungs.

IMHO the years that kids do spend in school needs to be better. High school was a joke and my first two years of college was no different. If I was a unique example I would have never met anyone who had similar experiences, yet the story was one I heard often.

My wife is a teacher and there are many kids in her past classes that never learned things that should be at the forefront of their brains, ready to implement the skills they have. Year long school would help. Also copy other countries that have successful children that grow into talented adults.

Parents need to be there for their kids. From conception until they are adults, people need support. Everyone knows my stance on LIFE issues, killing little defenseless babies will never, ever solve problems for anyone.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If a person needs “more school” then that is just an admission it doesn’t work as advertised.

Why does it take 13 years to indoctrinate a child?[/quote]

Agreed.

As for why it takes 13 years to indoctrinate a child, I would argue that it’s about more than simple indoctrination at some point-it’s about ownership. Most have not demonstrated a desire to live in “public” housing, but most do believe in the necessity of public education.

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If a person needs “more school” then that is just an admission it doesn’t work as advertised.

Why does it take 13 years to indoctrinate a child?[/quote]

Agreed.

As for why it takes 13 years to indoctrinate a child, I would argue that it’s about more than simple indoctrination at some point-it’s about ownership. Most have not demonstrated a desire to live in “public” housing, but most do believe in the necessity of public education. [/quote]

Democracy and liberty in motion.

[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Democracy and liberty in motion.
[/quote]

Yes, and unless people reject the idea that democracy and liberty are the same, there’s no way to stop the slide.

Edit: Of course, the fact that the vast majority believes the two concepts are the same is proof that public education works. Those who believe otherwise merely misunderstand the goals of public education.

In Utah there is actually a program that does this. All the student has to do is maintain a 3.5 GPA and when they graduate high school, you are also awarded an associates degree.

[quote]msw1959 wrote:
In Utah there is actually a program that does this. All the student has to do is maintain a 3.5 GPA and when they graduate high school, you are also awarded an associates degree.[/quote]

Interestingly, Utah also apparently gives away free houses.

[quote]msw1959 wrote:
In Utah there is actually a program that does this. All the student has to do is maintain a 3.5 GPA and when they graduate high school, you are also awarded an associates degree.[/quote]

Not quite correct, you are allowed to take college courses in high school.