T Nation

Obama Wins!

Obama has 1,500 electoral votes, McCain has -1,000,000.

Obama has the popular vote too at 6,000,000,000! McCain… -1,000,000,000,000

Fantasy world? That’s rich coming from a conservative these days.

The same guys who tried to sell the ludicrous fantasy that Obama is a Marxist Muslim Manchurian candidate who somehow managed to hide this fact from everybody who knows him for the past thirty-odd years,

And further never took any steps to enact any of his radical terror ideas during his tenure in the state senate, as this would have blown his cover. Once he becomes president, he will enact his true terror agenda.

Despite these attacks, “Obama?s favorability is the highest for a presidential candidate running for a first term in the last 28 years of Times/CBS polls.” Probably because its OBVIOUS TO ANYONE NOT A COMPLETE MORON that it’s fucking BULLSHIT.

The guys who want to pass off Palin as a “folsky, down home git er done” type when in fact she’s just a fucking MORON and an ELITIST herself at that who blew 150 grand on fucking CLOTHES.

The guys who cling to an ideology in ruins even after many of their best and brightest minds have jumped ship, from Powell to Buckley to Hitchens, to countless other pundits.

The guys who reek desperation and cluelessness in an internet era where their lies can be immediately refuted on youtube, and whose clumsy attempts at ham-fisted “narrative” amount to careening from theme to disjointed theme and liberally (!) peppering it with transparently retarded “red-baiting” type incendiary fearmongering.

Give me a fucking break.

Guess what dude… we tried your shit, it didn’t work, and if the polls are any indication, your whole fucking deal is gonna be in disarray come next week.

POOF… GAHHHHN

[quote]Black Greg wrote:
Obama is a Marxist Muslim Manchurian candidate[/quote]

It is McCain who is the Manchurian candidate! After perfecting their skills in North Korea, those damn Manchurians were helping the Viet Cong when they interrogated our POWs.

Obama is the member of an elite Al-Qaeda sleeper cell set up in a grade school in the late 1960’s. Its important to keep conspiracy theories straight, once the get garbled up all hell will break loose.

So, if you vote for McCain, the Communists control the White House. If you vote for Obama, al-Qaeda controls the White House. That is why you have to vote for someone who has never been out of the country in order to be sure that they are True Patriots. If only we could find a major political candidate that didn’t travel overseas without armed guards …

Palin for President!

[quote]Bondslave wrote:
I wish I could live in fantasy land like liberals. That would be awesome!

If obama does get elected all you fools that voted for him will get exactly what you deserve. Unfortunately, you are taking me down with you…[/quote]

LOL. Fantasy land? Oh well. Desperate words from desperate people.

Now send the GOP back to the damn desert for ten years.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Bondslave wrote:
I wish I could live in fantasy land like liberals. That would be awesome!

If Obama does get elected all you fools that voted for him will get exactly what you deserve. Unfortunately, you are taking me down with you…

LOL. Fantasy land? Oh well. Desperate words from desperate people.

Now send the GOP back to the damn desert for ten years.[/quote]

Oh, Oh, I know this fantasy. But that’s 40 years in the desert. This is the ‘I’m Charlton Heston as Moses’ fantasy, right?

Tuesday, you can have the ‘I’m Davie Crockett in the Alamo fantasy as you watch waves upon wave of voters roll in.’

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

There needs to be a single follow-up question to most of his ideas/plans: At what cost?

“We will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility.”
Great. At what cost?

“We will drastically reduce/remove American forces from Iraq.”
Great. At what cost?

“We will develop a health care system that will provide accessible, affordable coverage for all.”
Great. At what cost?

“We will invest in alternative fuels and renewable energy, including a plan to increase America?s energy efficiency and create 5 million new ?green? jobs.”
Great. At what cost?

“We will remove tax breaks for all companies that send jobs overseas.”
Great. At what cost?

“We will raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation and increase the Earned Income Tax Credit.”
Great. At what cost?

The ‘Obama Factor’ is baffling. For some reason, there are very intelligent people who completely lose their analaytical faculties with this guy – believing is seeing, words speak louder than actions, ambitions speak louder than realities.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Are you afraid of a progressive tax system?

Well, we have one currently and I think it’s unfair. But yea I’m afraid the “redistribute wealth” mantra that obama loves so much.[/quote]

First, nice to see some real answers and discussion Mick!

I don’t think Obama has been the one talking about redistribution of wealth. It seems the McCain camp is the one that has been trying to push that idea…

[quote]Are you afraid of removing forces from Iraq?

I’m afraid of doing it prematurely…yes.[/quote]

Well, I can’t say I blame you. However, while you may not believe Obama, he talks about working in consultation with military leaders – such that he’s unlikely to simply leave the place entirely.

It seems entirely likely that both McCain and Obama would have to leave some level of forces in Iraq, while the fight would be moving to Afghanistan.

[quote]Are you afraid of his health care plan?

Yes, because it basically takes money from those who have it and gives it to those who do not have it. I don’t like that very much. No offense but it reminds me of Canada, and it’s not working all that well there…as you know.[/quote]

I think you guys hear a few horror stories from unhappy people who have tales of woe. In reality, if you are rich you can travel to get health care, if you like. If you aren’t rich then it’s nice to know you won’t go broke due to an illness in the family.

However, do I think it’s entirely reasonable if you decide you don’t like national health care.

[quote]Are you afraid of his service in return for education concept?

Yes, because no one has explained to me exactly how one gets their college paid for by simply serving the government somewhere. Where does the money come from…Never mind I know…and I don’t like it.[/quote]

Heh. Not liking it isn’t the same as being afraid. I’d point out that people with higher education end up with good salaries and an ability to pay taxes. The alternative seems to be have them earn shitty salaries and pay no taxes. I’m not sure the cost of the education is the whole story.

I think it’s all too easy to declare his church a problem as you have. You cannot ignore the fact that there has historically been a racial divide in your country. If Obama is elected that should go a long way towards removing that issue from the table once and for all.

The fact that black people were pissed off at facing racism and discrimination over the years should not be a surprise…

Anyway, being exposed to a thing does not mean that one agrees with it. For example, the same logic could be used to paint me a right wing hardliner due to my participation in these forums.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
Oh come on guys what’s wrong with taking more of your money and giving it to people who sit on their asses all day and expect the government to help them?

It’s called redistribution of wealth, or as obama puts it change.[/quote]

you’re right we should give it to wall street executives instead who are already pulling in $100 million a year

[quote]Bondslave wrote:
I wish I could live in fantasy land like liberals. That would be awesome!

If obama does get elected all you fools that voted for him will get exactly what you deserve. Unfortunately, you are taking me down with you…[/quote]

hey mr. conservative what does starting two pre-emptive wars have to do with being fiscally conservative ?

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Amen. We’re on the way to the finish line. Godspeed to Obama…

YEA…I’m with you man…Now all of the “have nots” can start getting hand outs from those who worked for it. That will really make them feel good huh?

obuma.[/quote]

because welfare never existed before Obama right ?

[quote]vroom wrote:

I don’t think Obama has been the one talking about redistribution of wealth. It seems the McCain camp is the one that has been trying to push that idea…[/quote]

Really? From Obama’s website: “Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility.” [/quote]
Will ask? What if they say no?

[quote]

Are you afraid of his health care plan?

I think you guys hear a few horror stories from unhappy people who have tales of woe. In reality, if you are rich you can travel to get health care, if you like. [/quote]

Where do ‘rich Canadians’ go to get the healthcare they desire? Where would you suggest I go – Mexico?

Right. And he’s chosen to associate with – nay, follow – a man who exacerbates that racial divide every chance he gets. Meanwhile, Obama claims to be a uniter.

The idea that he should be elected to appease a disgruntled group of our citizens is insane.

That statement is irrelevant and misguided to address.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:

  1. That he was a memeber of a racist Church for 20 years.

  2. That he has close personal relationships with Bill Ayers and a very seedy guy (who was jailed)by the name of “Rezko” who gave him real-estate deals.

  3. That he’s the most liberal Senator in the US Senate.

  4. That he’s only actually served 143 days as a US Senator.

  5. That he has accomplished nothing other than self-promotion.

  6. That…oh never mind. These things are not really important after all he is suggesting we need change and that’s really all that matters.

Silly me.

obuma.[/quote]

  1. because of course McCain has had perfect relationships in his life for 70+ years straight, yep no issues ever

  2. “Terrorist” and “Freedom fighter” are nothing but words depending on which side of the superpower battle you are on, turn off the TV and the stop listening to the major news networks

  3. If you haven’t realized from the actions of the republican administration and the democratic congress yet…both sides are one and the same and have the same interests, the behavior of the republican party since Reagen became president has been anything but “conservative”

  4. less experience ? good, less possibility for corruption

  5. see #4

  6. yep you americans love your TV soundbytes so i’m not surprised by Obama’s catch phrases and buzzwords, because both sides use the same tricks

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:
Really? From Obama’s website: “Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility.”
Will ask? What if they say no?
[/quote]

Dude, progressive taxation has been around for a long time. In the words of Colin Powell, it’s tax policy.

Wherever they want. I’m sure the US is a convenient location for some but except for bleeding edge treatments there are other places.

[quote]Right. And he’s chosen to associate with – nay, follow – a man who exacerbates that racial divide every chance he gets. Meanwhile, Obama claims to be a uniter.
[/quote]

Obama isn’t reverend Wright. He doesn’t go around saying the same things that reverend Wright does. However, having heard reverend Wright will give him insight into those that feel he isn’t promoting black causes enough.

Strange that you are the one who seems to have that idea…

[quote]Anyway, being exposed to a thing does not mean that one agrees with it. For example, the same logic could be used to paint me a right wing hardliner due to my participation in these forums.

That statement is irrelevant and misguided to address.
[/quote]

Not at all. It shows how dangerous it can be to play the association game so mindlessly.

[quote]SinisterMinister wrote:

Really? From Obama’s website: “Obama will ask the wealthiest 2% of families to give back a portion of the tax cuts they have received over the past eight years to ensure we are restoring fairness and returning to fiscal responsibility.”

[/quote]

Oh, it’ll be higher than that.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
Are you afraid of a progressive tax system?

Well, we have one currently and I think it’s unfair. But yea I’m afraid the “redistribute wealth” mantra that obama loves so much.

First, nice to see some real answers and discussion Mick!

I don’t think Obama has been the one talking about redistribution of wealth. It seems the McCain camp is the one that has been trying to push that idea…

Are you afraid of removing forces from Iraq?

I’m afraid of doing it prematurely…yes.

Well, I can’t say I blame you. However, while you may not believe Obama, he talks about working in consultation with military leaders – such that he’s unlikely to simply leave the place entirely.

It seems entirely likely that both McCain and Obama would have to leave some level of forces in Iraq, while the fight would be moving to Afghanistan.

Are you afraid of his health care plan?

Yes, because it basically takes money from those who have it and gives it to those who do not have it. I don’t like that very much. No offense but it reminds me of Canada, and it’s not working all that well there…as you know.

I think you guys hear a few horror stories from unhappy people who have tales of woe. In reality, if you are rich you can travel to get health care, if you like. If you aren’t rich then it’s nice to know you won’t go broke due to an illness in the family.

However, do I think it’s entirely reasonable if you decide you don’t like national health care.

Are you afraid of his service in return for education concept?

Yes, because no one has explained to me exactly how one gets their college paid for by simply serving the government somewhere. Where does the money come from…Never mind I know…and I don’t like it.

Heh. Not liking it isn’t the same as being afraid. I’d point out that people with higher education end up with good salaries and an ability to pay taxes. The alternative seems to be have them earn shitty salaries and pay no taxes. I’m not sure the cost of the education is the whole story.

I didn’t say he was a muslim terrorist. But I don’t like that he was a member of a black racist church for 20 years. If the liberal media had done their job he would not have even gotten the nomination. Heck if McCain did his job the race would not even be close right now.

I think it’s all too easy to declare his church a problem as you have. You cannot ignore the fact that there has historically been a racial divide in your country. If Obama is elected that should go a long way towards removing that issue from the table once and for all.

The fact that black people were pissed off at facing racism and discrimination over the years should not be a surprise…

Anyway, being exposed to a thing does not mean that one agrees with it. For example, the same logic could be used to paint me a right wing hardliner due to my participation in these forums.
[/quote]

Vroom you are are talking about something you know nothing about.

Justice is no longer blind in america, if a man tries to rob your house and you shoot him and he is black you get in troulbe because he is black.

If you interview for an equal opportunity employer and are a white male chances are you can lose the job to a less qualified minority applicant because of special interest laws put in place.

And as far as his policies, the only problem there is they do not correlate at all with his senate votes. and instead of saying he has changed views over the years, he just started voting present on controversial issues and lying about previous votes, knowing most americans didn’t care enough to actually look into his past votes and what he has really done.

here is a snip of what he has done for chicago, and what we have to fear.

Perhaps the U.S. should pull out of Chicago?

Body count:
In the last six months:
292 killed (murdered) in Chicago;
221 killed in Iraq.

Chicago… Who Runs it:
Senators: Barack Obama & Dick Durbin
Rep: Jesse Jackson Jr.,
Illinois Gov: Rod Blogojevich,
Illinois House leader: Mike Madigan,
Illinois Atty. Gen.: Lisa Madigan (daughter of Mike),
Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley (son of Mayor Richard J. Daley)

…our leadership in Illinois …all Democrats.

Thank you for the combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they’re all blaming each other!
Can’t blame Republicans; there aren’t any!

State pension fund $44 Billion in debt, worst in country. Cook County (Chicago) sales tax 10.25% highest in country. (Look 'em up if you want).

Chicago school system rated one of the worst in the country.
This is the political culture that Obama comes from in Illinois. And he’s gonna ‘fix’ Washington politics for us!

from a repuclican site, but facts you can check.

So you are right it isn’t what he says that we should fear, it is what he has done.

my belief:
A flat income tax 10% on all income, no deductions, eliminate some of the confusion.

Close the borders, and start a mass exportation of those here illegally.

Change immigration laws and citizenship laws to be more clear and leave less loopholes.

Lower business tax on campanies in the US.

Raise importation tax, raise taxes on businesses that were in the US and have moved overseas.

Give 1 yr income equivalent tax credits for each new job created in the US for a company with a 5 yr contingency, that job must exist for 5 yrs.

Let the failing businesses fail, natural selection there is a reason you have failed.

enforce regulations, prosecute violators.

Remove special interest from Law, it has no business there.

Just some of what we should do.

[quote] vroom wrote:

Dude, progressive taxation has been around for a long time. In the words of Colin Powell, it’s tax policy.
[/quote]
Dude, I’m aware. And why are you quoting Colin Powell regarding tax policy?

[quote]Where do ‘rich Canadians’ go to get the healthcare they desire? Where would you suggest I go – Mexico?

Wherever they want. I’m sure the US is a convenient location for some but except for bleeding edge treatments there are other places.[/quote]

Hmmm… So the same upper 5-10% that will be paying the brunt of the country’s ‘universal healthcare’ costs will need to fly to another country to get quality healthcare for themselves? Sounds like a great system.

[quote]
Obama isn’t reverend Wright. He doesn’t go around saying the same things that reverend Wright does. However, having heard reverend Wright will give him insight into those that feel he isn’t promoting black causes enough.[/quote]

It’s not Wright’s words that concern me – it’s Obama’s actions. If I were to spend 20 years hanging out at KKK rallies, giving money, inviting my family, offering my support for their cause, you’d be wise to question the content of my character – ESPECIALLY if I were running for President. The fact that Obama has CHOSEN to associate/fund/praise/follow a preacher of hate and division should not be taken lightly. In fact, dismissing such an association out of hand is unthinkable to me.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20081103_Obama_economics__Flush_go_the_plumbers.html

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