Everytime I see discussion on Obama from Liberals they call him centrist rather then Liberal and Repubs call him Ultra Leftist. There obviously is some discrepancy here because he can’t be both.
So what gives is this just due to the partisanship? Liberal’s arnt exactly happy about Obama so they try to differentiate from him by calling him Centrist. And Repubs call him Ultra Leftist because well by labeling the opposition as “extreme” they try to dissuade people from voting for him.
Well, maybe conservatives are afraid what he would do if he could and progressives are disappointed that he has not turned the US into a peoples republic yet.
[quote]optheta wrote:
Everytime I see discussion on Obama from Liberals they call him centrist rather then Liberal and Repubs call him Ultra Leftist. There obviously is some discrepancy here because he can’t be both.
So what gives is this just due to the partisanship? Liberal’s arnt exactly happy about Obama so they try to differentiate from him by calling him Centrist. And Repubs call him Ultra Leftist because well by labeling the opposition as “extreme” they try to dissuade people from voting for him.
Anybody care to shed some light on this?[/quote]
Farrakan on Obama: (LOL!) ‘That’s a Murderer in the White House’
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Ultra-leftism is Communism. Obama isn’t a Communist. Therefore, Obama isn’t an ultra-leftist.[/quote]
No, ultra leftism can take many forms. And he does believe in elements of communism.[/quote]
Ultra-leftism refers specifically to a form of Anti-Leninist left-communism defined in particular by its opposition to Bolshevik Statism.
So: Ultra-leftists are pseudo-anarchic Marxists opposed to state authority. Obama holds the highest political office in a country defined in large part by its powerful market economy. Therefore, Obama is not ultra leftist.
And the notion that he “does believe in elements of communism” is nothing more than ridiculous partisan hyperventilation. Real criticism is undermined entirely when people throw propagandized hyperbolic bullshit like this around.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Ultra-leftism is Communism. Obama isn’t a Communist. Therefore, Obama isn’t an ultra-leftist.[/quote]
No, ultra leftism can take many forms. And he does believe in elements of communism.[/quote]
Ultra-leftism refers specifically to a form of Anti-Leninist left-communism defined in particular by its opposition to Bolshevik Statism.
So: Ultra-leftists are pseudo-anarchic Marxists opposed to state authority. Obama holds the highest political office in a country defined in large part by its powerful market economy. Therefore, Obama is not ultra leftist.
And the notion that he “does believe in elements of communism” is nothing more than ridiculous partisan hyperventilation. Real criticism is undermined entirely when people throw propagandized hyperbolic bullshit like this around.[/quote]
He believes one of the government’s jobs is the redistribution of wealth.
His stance that not increasing taxes is a “cost” to the government also denotes his belief that all money belongs first to the government and that what the government “allows” the private market to keep is expenditure. Though many dems and tv personalities express this same belief. The very basis for the question “how do we pay for tax cuts?” expresses fundamental communist assumptions of government ownership of all wealth by necessity.
And what he believes and wants to do and the state of the country and what he is able to do are 2 different things.
And sorry, I was using ultra leftism meaning only extremely left, not as a proper noun. I took the original thread to mean this because it makes more sense when comparing to a centrist. If we are discussing ultra-left in the sense of a specific brand of communism, I missed the mark.
Lastly, I’m in no way partisan. You may call me an ideologue if you wish, but the last thing I am is partisan.
Fair enough with regard to ultra-leftist as a subjective adjective rather than a proper noun.
I still maintain that Obama is in no way substantively similar to a Communist. Rhetoric aside, the president is in practicality a left-leaning proponent of capitalism. We could argue over taxation’s merits and drawbacks and over rates which we deem to be specifically appropriate, and in that argument I suspect that you would fall to the right of Obama and I, and us to the left of you.
But we would all of us be to one extent or another capitalists, united in opposition to the fundamental tenets of Communism (the abolition of private property, the nationalization of the means of production, and in its darker manifestations: council authoritarianism, class warfare, Stalinism and Maoism) which both define it and make it such a terrible idea.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Fair enough with regard to ultra-leftist as a subjective adjective rather than a proper noun.
I still maintain that Obama is in no way substantively similar to a Communist. Rhetoric aside, the president is in practicality a left-leaning proponent of capitalism. We could argue over taxation’s merits and drawbacks and over rates which we deem to be specifically appropriate, and in that argument I suspect that you would fall to the right of Obama and I, and us to the left of you. But we would all of us be to one extent or another capitalists, united in opposition to the fundamental tenets of Communism (the abolition of private property, the nationalization of the means of production, and in its darker manifestations: council authoritarianism, class warfare, Stalinism and Maoism) which both define it and make it such a terrible idea.[/quote]
Can you explain “paying for tax cuts” without the assumption of government ownership of all property?
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Fair enough with regard to ultra-leftist as a subjective adjective rather than a proper noun.
I still maintain that Obama is in no way substantively similar to a Communist. Rhetoric aside, the president is in practicality a left-leaning proponent of capitalism. We could argue over taxation’s merits and drawbacks and over rates which we deem to be specifically appropriate, and in that argument I suspect that you would fall to the right of Obama and I, and us to the left of you. But we would all of us be to one extent or another capitalists, united in opposition to the fundamental tenets of Communism (the abolition of private property, the nationalization of the means of production, and in its darker manifestations: council authoritarianism, class warfare, Stalinism and Maoism) which both define it and make it such a terrible idea.[/quote]
Can you explain “paying for tax cuts” without the assumption of government ownership of all property?
Or better yet, paying for not increasing taxes?[/quote]
Poor word choice, motivated by a thinly-veiled political desire to associate tax cuts with “spending,” which today is one of the most hated words in American politics.
Semantics aside, the man just isn’t a Communist. Not in any way that matters, anyway.
[quote]smh23 wrote:
Fair enough with regard to ultra-leftist as a subjective adjective rather than a proper noun.
I still maintain that Obama is in no way substantively similar to a Communist. Rhetoric aside, the president is in practicality a left-leaning proponent of capitalism. We could argue over taxation’s merits and drawbacks and over rates which we deem to be specifically appropriate, and in that argument I suspect that you would fall to the right of Obama and I, and us to the left of you. But we would all of us be to one extent or another capitalists, united in opposition to the fundamental tenets of Communism (the abolition of private property, the nationalization of the means of production, and in its darker manifestations: council authoritarianism, class warfare, Stalinism and Maoism) which both define it and make it such a terrible idea.[/quote]
Can you explain “paying for tax cuts” without the assumption of government ownership of all property?
Or better yet, paying for not increasing taxes?[/quote]
Poor word choice, motivated by a thinly-veiled political desire to associate tax cuts with “spending,” which today is one of the most hated words in American politics.
Semantics aside, the man just isn’t a Communist. Not in any way that matters, anyway.[/quote]
Poor word choice that is repeated ad nauseam?
It is too common a practice to be anything but deliberate.
The healthcare bill was the single worst piece of legislature passed by the US Gov. (this is why I* would call him a leftist)
Other than that Obama has been very similar to Bush (I’m not talking about what is said, I’m talking about what has been done!). National security is my #1 issue, and we have been safe the whole time Barry has been in the white house so I’m fine with it for now.
Whether or not he had much to do with it, I’m all for the pat-downs that they do at the airport…you don’t like it? THEN DON’T FLY! IT’S NOT A RIGHT TO FLY IT’S A PRIVELAGE!
The healthcare bill was the single worst piece of legislature passed by the US Gov. (this is why I* would call him a leftist)
Other than that Obama has been very similar to Bush (I’m not talking about what is said, I’m talking about what has been done!). National security is my #1 issue, and we have been safe the whole time Barry has been in the white house so I’m fine with it for now.
Whether or not he had much to do with it, I’m all for the pat-downs that they do at the airport…you don’t like it? THEN DON’T FLY! IT’S NOT A RIGHT TO FLY IT’S A PRIVELAGE!
[/quote]
What about driving, or eating at restaurants, or playing in a park? Are those privileges too?
You do have a right to protection from unreasonable searches.
If you followed your reasoning, you could apply the justification to ANY search.
The healthcare bill was the single worst piece of legislature passed by the US Gov. (this is why I* would call him a leftist)
[/quote]
That’s a bold claim about a government which also once passed the Fugitive Slave Act.[/quote]
LOL. Even in more modern times, I would have gone with SS and Medicare. Or the creation of the federal reserve. Or the prescription drug act. Or Japanese interment. Or the patriot act… The entire war on drugs…
The healthcare bill was the single worst piece of legislature passed by the US Gov. (this is why I* would call him a leftist)
[/quote]
That’s a bold claim about a government which also once passed the Fugitive Slave Act.[/quote]
LOL. Even in more modern times, I would have gone with SS and Medicare. Or the creation of the federal reserve. Or the prescription drug act. Or Japanese interment. Or the patriot act… The entire war on drugs…[/quote]
lol yeah. And let’s not forget the War Powers Resolution, not because it is theoretically wrong but because in practicality presidents seem to simply literally ignore it.
[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
He was the furthermost left senator while in office there. On what planet could that be centrist?[/quote]
Not sure of his Senate record but he is The President now and if one takes a look at his nominies for political positions which surround him it is easy to conclude those “leftest days” are far behind him.
BTW, what leftest ideas and bills did he support in his “leftest days?”