Obama to Extend Patriot Act

[quote]pushharder wrote:
TBT4ver wrote:

…Obama is bigger government, but I thought he was what we needed on the international stage to get everyone else to hate us slightly less…

You honestly voted for Obama so some French fucker would hate us less? You deserve all the flaming you get over this. Good grief, man, that is some kinda lame. I am literally shaking my head in awe. [/quote]

That is a legitimate response. At the time, I thought our international standing was a far bigger problem than a little bit of extra spending from some democrats. Of course, what I thought would be a “little bit” was a wee bit more than that, and, accordingly, now I think out of control government spending is a far bigger threat to our nation’s prosperity. Chances are I will never vote for another democrat again.

P.S. Of all the nation’s I value France’s opinion the least.


I am on the extreme left. I voted for Obama and I may have even persuaded a few other peopkle to vote for him.

I would like to throw my 2 cents in and say Obama has been a giant hulking piece of monkey shit. This guy seems to say one thing and do another. While it is true he is still new, and deserves a fair chance…it is becoming very clear the new boss is looking more and more like the old boss, except well spoken with grandiose promises.

The democrats have no excuse now. They have the house, senate, and admin. office. I want to hear what excuses they have now, “Oh Bush will appeal it…republican majority in senate…Republican’s will filibuster…we want to help and be good, but the republicans will not let us!!!”

I think it is a bunch of shit.

It is just like Jesse Ventura said, these guys are a lot like wrestling. They put on a good act, but when the cameras not there, they are good friends.

Will a third party ever be worth my vote? Will one of the two parties ever act in the interest of the people?

I was in Paris when Obama won in Nov 2008. They went apeshit over his victory, you would have thought people won the lottery.

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I was in Paris when Obama won in Nov 2008. They went apeshit over his victory, you would have thought people won the lottery. [/quote]

They just may have the way this guys likes to give our money away.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
I am on the extreme left. >>>
[/quote]

I’ll give you sincere credit for acknowledging this and the image you posted is quite apropos in that light.

You’re a smart guy and make many fine points. My comment was aimed at your original assertion:

The reason that I said it was “a ridiculous, inaccurate over simplification” is because GW made two outstanding supreme court appointments, John Roberts and Sam Alito. I wouldn’t want the opposite of these two great picks.

Did Bush do many other things wrong? Yes, but certainly not everything.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
I am on the extreme left. >>>

I’ll give you sincere credit for acknowledging this and the image you posted is quite apropos in that light.[/quote]

Agreed.

My state, Maine, is a microcosm of what we’re seeing at the Federal level. 40 years of liberal Democrat control of state house, state senate, and governor. 2nd/3rd worse economy in the country, 2nd/3rd highest insurance in the country, and a FAILED socialized healthcare program (research: DIRIGO healthcare). The state is deeply in debt.

Even though dems have controlled Maine’s government for 40 years, they continually blame republicans (and others as we have a strong Libertarian and Green presence).

This column came out last week from a lawyer friend of mine. He’s been council to several campaigns and state referenda campaigns-- his points apply to the Federal level as well:

http://kennebecjournal.mainetoday.com/view/columns/6824718.html

Democrats have numbers, but not will, to govern

From reading the newspapers recently, one would think Republicans were the majority party in Washington and Augusta. If one is to believe the headlines – and some Democrats – Republicans control the destiny of critical legislation in Congress and the State House.

In reality, the only thing holding back legislation is that Democrats are afraid to govern.

Much of the recent coverage of the national health-care debate has focused on the opposition of most Republicans to Democratic proposals. One recent article suggested that the president’s efforts to reform the health-care system could depend upon Maine Republican Sen. Olympia Snowe. All these articles ignore the fact that Democrats control the U.S. Senate, the U.S. House and a health-care bill can be enacted without a single Republican vote.

It is true that the bizarre rules of the U.S. Senate generally allow a minority of senators to hold up legislation. With the recent death of Sen. Ted Kennedy, the Democrats are one vote shy of the 60 votes that are needed to end a filibuster. The rules of the Senate, however, also allow a filibuster to be avoided through a process called reconciliation. Under this process, any bill affecting the budget can pass the Senate by a simple majority. During the Bush administration, Republicans used this process to enact three major tax cuts. The same process could be used to pass health-care reform – if Democrats can agree among themselves what they want to do.

A similar situation exists in Maine, where majority Democrats are blaming Republicans for the cancellation of two-thirds of the light paving projects scheduled this year.

The Maine Department of Transportation canceled the projects because fuel-tax revenues fell well short of projections and efforts to increase the gas tax failed earlier this year, despite having support from all the Democrats on the Legislature’s Transportation Committee.

Committee Democrats argued forcefully that a gas-tax increase was necessary to maintain Maine’s roads. But despite having the support of a few Republicans, Democrats in the Legislature refused to pass a gas tax increase because it did not have broad support among Republicans.

At an August meeting of the Legislature’s Transportation Committee, one Democratic representative suggested that Republicans should support a gas-tax increase because a majority of the canceled projects were in districts represented by Republicans. (Which makes one wonder if partisan considerations played a role in the selection of projects to cancel.)

A Republican senator who supports a gas-tax increase went so far as to suggest that “Republicans are just going to have to back down.” But in reality, it is not necessary for Republicans to back down for a gas tax increase to pass.

Democrats have solid majorities in both the Maine House and Senate and control the governor’s office. If Democrats believe that a gas-tax increase is necessary to properly fund infrastructure improvements, Democrats have the ability to pass a gas-tax increase without a single Republican vote. In reality, it is majority Democrats who have held up the funding of road projects, not minority Republicans.

[b]So the question is: Why, if Democrats believe health-care reform and/or a gas-tax increase is good policy, do they resist passing these proposals without Republican support?

The answer is simple: politics.[/b]

Democrats won big victories in 2006 and 2008 by blaming Republicans for everything that was wrong in our country. Comfortable with that successful game plan, Democrats would like to place their own failures at the feet of minority Republicans in 2010. By creating the appearance, with the help of their willing allies in the media, that Republicans are holding up Democratic initiatives, Democrats can go into the next election blaming Republicans for their own failures to pass legislation.

In addition, if health-care reform or a gas tax increase passes with Republican support, Democrats have political cover if the legislation turns out to be unpopular. Democrats standing for re-election will be able to suggest that the legislation was a bipartisan compromise and blame any unpopular parts of the legislation on Republicans.

[b]Voters should not fall for this cynical political ploy.

Last year, voters gave Democrats complete power in Washington and Maine.

Democrats do not need Republican votes to pass legislation. Anything that does or does not pass between now and the 2010 election is because of Democrats.[/b]

It is time for Democrats to put politics aside and govern. If they don’t, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I laugh (and cry).

I can’t count how many of my friends/colleagues voted for Obama on his supposed ‘promise’ to repeal the Patriot Act. In reality, he was a moderate supporter of it all along, but folks hear what they want to hear.

He (and those who support him) just didn’t like “Bush’s version” (not my words):
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/05/fact_check_obamas_consistent_p_1.php

The joke (ie. the sad, cruel, pathetic joke on the American people) is that he not only has embraced it, but even according to Dems, made it worse:

(Democrat blog)

If I voted for him on this point, I’d be asking for my money back (like a lot of truly fiscally/constitutionally conservative Republicans rebuked Bush).

How many posts in this forum were dedicated to slamming the Bush administration for the Patriot Act, while supporting Obama?

[/quote]

“Promise everything, deliver nothing.” — Napoleon Bonaparte

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
<<< A very good long post >>>[/quote]

This illustrates exactly why if I were the RNC chair my strategy would be one of almost total absentee obstructionism. Especially on healthcare and cap and trade, but also on just about every other leftist component to the scheme this crew is pushing.

The GOP could win big victories in the next couple elections if they force the Dems to own this agenda with zeeroh support from them.

For the reasons this guy states in this article, as soon as there is any meaningful bipartisan support the republicans paint the exact same targets on themselves that the democrats are in the middle of painting on THEMselves. I say, let them have it.

As little faith as I have in them ALMOST any republican administration would be preferable to this gang. Some will not want to hear this, but regardless of how good an idea it may be, 3rd parties are an absolute guarantee of liberal administrations in perpetuity. They just are. It’s too late. The more successful they are the more concrete the guarantee. Perot should have taught us this.

Shatter the left right paradigm, they’re all puppets.

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Shatter the left right paradigm, they’re all puppets.[/quote]

And tell me, who is manipulating these puppets?

[quote]ZEB wrote:
nik133 wrote:
Shatter the left right paradigm, they’re all puppets.

And tell me, who is manipulating these puppets?[/quote]

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
I am on the extreme left. >>>

I’ll give you sincere credit for acknowledging this and the image you posted is quite apropos in that light.[/quote]

Ah balls I hate Pete, but I’ll second you on this.

mike

Again, I ask: How many posts in this forum were dedicated to slamming the Bush administration for the Patriot Act, while supporting Obama?

I distinctly remember posts in this forum around the last presidential election from people saying they were voting for Obama because he’d repeal or was against the Patriot Act. Where are they now? Why aren’t they posting that, yes, they were suckered.

C’mon, it’s OK. The crow is cooked up just right for eatin’.

Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100228/D9E4T02G0.html

[/i]
WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama has signed a one-year extension of several provisions in the nation’s main counterterrorism law, the Patriot Act.

Provisions in the measure would have expired on Sunday without Obama’s signature Saturday.

The act, which was adopted in the weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attacks, expands the government’s ability to monitor Americans in the name of national security.

Three sections of the Patriot Act that stay in force will:

_Authorize court-approved roving wiretaps that permit surveillance on multiple phones.

_Allow court-approved seizure of records and property in anti-terrorism operations.

_Permit surveillance against a so-called lone wolf, a non-U.S. citizen engaged in terrorism who may not be part of a recognized terrorist group.

Obama’s signature comes after the House voted 315 to 97 Thursday to extend the measure.

The Senate also approved the measure, with privacy protections cast aside when Senate Democrats lacked the necessary 60-vote supermajority to pass them. Thrown away were restrictions and greater scrutiny on the government’s authority to spy on Americans and seize their records. [/i]

A wise man once sang:

There’s nothing in the street
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Is now the parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I’ll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around me
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I’ll get on my knees and pray
We don’t get fooled again
Don’t get fooled again
No, no!

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

When will people ever learn that campaigns are completely meaningless. The only way to predict what somebody will be like in office is to objectively examine their history.

It is truly humorous that anybody actually believed this administration, if it became one, would do ANYTHING to relinquish power in the name of constitutional civil rights. What anybody thinks of the patriot act is irrelevant to this point. The fact that anybody thought Obama cared anything at all for the constitution or individual liberty is.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
When will people ever learn that campaigns are completely meaningless. The only way to predict what somebody will be like in office is to objectively examine their history.

It is truly humorous that anybody actually believed this administration, if it became one, would do ANYTHING to relinquish power in the name of constitutional civil rights. What anybody thinks of the patriot act is irrelevant to this point. The fact that anybody thought Obama cared anything at all for the constitution or individual liberty is.[/quote]

You seem to think liberal voters give a shit about the constitution. This is merely an extension of the ideas that progressives hold dear, a hatred for the idea that government is in some way limited in its function.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
When will people ever learn that campaigns are completely meaningless. The only way to predict what somebody will be like in office is to objectively examine their history.

It is truly humorous that anybody actually believed this administration, if it became one, would do ANYTHING to relinquish power in the name of constitutional civil rights. What anybody thinks of the patriot act is irrelevant to this point. The fact that anybody thought Obama cared anything at all for the constitution or individual liberty is.[/quote]

Trib:

I think there are multiple things going on here. First, I’ve come to the conclusion that the far left really only cares about power. Big Government is power. They’ll say what they have to to win and keep power. Yes, I believe they are worse offenders in this regard than the Republicans. That’s why there is total lefty silence over this issue in the liberal press.

To our credit (Right Leaning Brethren) we called out W. for the spending.

Second, the dems currently in power didn’t earn their stay. There was no contract beyond NOT being George Bush.

Of the things that W. did incorrectly, I view his lack of party leadership as number one. He had a chance to BURY the dems after 2004. Had he cracked the whip on spending/fannie/freddie (yea, he tried, but, weakly), there would be no obama. There would have been no Mccain.

I’m watching closely the Republican response to this disaster. Will they groom a new generation? Will they give a crystal clear contrast?

So far, I see some encouraging signs. I thought they did ok in the “health care summit.” However, they should have seated Scott Brown directly to the left of obama. He wouldn’t have had to say a word. Everyone with more than a functioning brainstem would have gotten the message. I like Bob McDonnell from Virginia. I think his campaign was inclusive and ideas driven. I think he is an example of a new wave in the party.

To be fair, it’s time for Boehner and Mcconnell to be replaced.

JeffR

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]nik133 wrote:
Shatter the left right paradigm, they’re all puppets.[/quote]

And tell me, who is manipulating these puppets?[/quote]
interest groups?

Oh, boy…

And if Obama would have let the Patriot Act expire, he would have been coddling to the Muslim Extremist…(since, after all, he is one)…and shown how weak he really is.

(I seriously doubt that many of you would have been saying “The President was just upholding the Constitution and supporting individual Liberty”).

Is that about right?

Mufasa