T Nation

Obama to Extend Patriot Act


#1

...but I don't like him because I'm a racist right?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090915/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_patriot_act

mike


#2

Yep, according to former president carter, you are a racist. I guess the patriot act was only wrong when Bush did it. It's alright for obama to extend it...Don't expect to hear a peep from the left leaning brethren.


#3

I laugh (and cry).

I can't count how many of my friends/colleagues voted for Obama on his supposed 'promise' to repeal the Patriot Act. In reality, he was a moderate supporter of it all along, but folks hear what they want to hear.

He (and those who support him) just didn't like "Bush's version" (not my words):
http://www.barackobama.com/factcheck/2008/01/05/fact_check_obamas_consistent_p_1.php

The joke (ie. the sad, cruel, pathetic joke on the American people) is that he not only has embraced it, but even according to Dems, made it worse:

(Democrat blog)
http://donedems.com/2009/04/14/holy-crap-obama-actually-manages-to-make-the-patriot-act-worse-than-under-bush/

If I voted for him on this point, I'd be asking for my money back (like a lot of truly fiscally/constitutionally conservative Republicans rebuked Bush).

How many posts in this forum were dedicated to slamming the Bush administration for the Patriot Act, while supporting Obama?


#4

I heard the sound clip of President Carter's comments on the way into work this morning...I think I heard him say he knew this was so because God spoke to him in his dream...he described God as being a flying spaghetti monster...Draw your own conclusions from that

Seriously, anyone who takes Carter seriously anymore is just as crazy as taking Reagan's word seriously the last few years of his life...


#5

When this came up during the campaign I'm pretty sure somebody vaguely resembling myself said that regardless of what you thought of the patriot act, anybody thinking the Dems would relinquish that power despite their cacophonous railings at Bush was kidding themselves.


#6

I was one of those unfortunately...I know better now.


#7

Power is the ultimate addiction. Not only is it intoxicating in it's own right, but with it comes unlimited access to every other earthly indulgence. Power, once acquired, will NEVER be relinquished peacefully. The founders keenly, even painfully understood this which is why they almost universally believed that only men with genuine unearthly convictions would long resist this most ferocious of earthly temptations.

They knew and they warned... AND WARNED, that if ever the preponderance of power tipped from "we the people" to they the government, which could only happen through our complicity, it was over. This present power structure in the legislative and executive branch is actively pursuing that very end. That is THE goal. Make no mistake, the patriot act is a ready made weapon in that arsenal. They will never ever give it up in substance. They may adjust the language attached to it, but the teeth will remain. I promise.


#8

this is so true. All of my colleagues were convinced he would do away with the patriot act. that was what made his campaign so brilliant. He let you fill in the blanks.

Me, I heard "Universal BCAA's" and "Universal Squat Racks", and I was on board :stuck_out_tongue:


#9

I spoke out against the Patriot Act in opposition to other conservatives on this board. Now I'd like to hear all of those who were against the PA but voted for Obama speak out. Will they do it, or will they just turn the other way?

So far I think Obama has a perfect record, he has done not one thing that I agree with.


#10

The worst possible outcome is that Obama becomes Bush III.

The blueprint of a successful presidency is clear: do the opposite of Bush II (and Bush I).


#11

And the silence from the media is deafening....I wonder why? Maybe their afraid they'll be labeled racists.


#12

Present. I had a tough time deciding who to vote for last year. So far I think I made the wrong decision. Maybe with a Republican congress in 2010 he will come back from the brink of insanity?


#13

Only if the Republicans come back from the brink of insanity. I do respect your honesty. I am running into a considerable number of Obama voters now suffering from what have I done syndrome.

I'm dreaming of a day when I no longer have to cast a negative vote. I would just love to be able to vote FOR somebody instead of against the alternative. McCain was the worst possible candidate to oppose Obama and he is continuing to make that nauseatingly clear, but I voted for him only in the hopes of forgoing exactly what we are witnessing right now.

The GOP needs to plainly and loudly declare their egregious loss of identity since 2000 at least and contrast themselves in stark relief against this abominable legislative coup now in progress.

As long as they continue their neo compassionate liberal lite routine they will continue in irrelevance. The Dems are handing them, on a silver platter, with ribbons and bows, a repeat of 94 if they have the strategic wisdom to exploit it. The difference now is it's only been 2 years since they lost the house. The public has no reason to view them as credible. In 94 they hadn't controlled the house in decades.

That and the successful, along with sometimes legitimate demonization of GWB for 8 years makes that task much more difficult this time.

EDIT: I just realized you were saying HE, meaning Obama, coming back from the brink of insanity. He is not insane and he is not on some kick. This is his life's mission. "Transforming America". I'll ask again. What, pray tell, did people think he meant when he said this?


#14

A ridiculous, inaccurate over simplification.


#15

People thought that they wanted change because they didn't like what they had. But, as I've said in the past sometimes better the devil you know rather than the devil you don't know (note: they're mostly all devils). Throw in an extremely cooperative main stream media that would never report anything negative about the guy, (but gang raped Sarah Palin) and there you have it. In other words, most were fooled, some went in eyes wide open. Either way, this is our President for the next 3 1/2 years, let's pray he doesn't get us into a major war because of his inexperience and a major depression because of his radical left agenda.


#16

As is usual for you, you didn't say how or why, but let me clarify anyway. Most people will end up agreeing with me.

Our national policy over the past 30 years at least has been characterized by the following 3 pillars:

1) Invade the world
2) Invite the world
3) In hoc to the world

These were all magnified significantly under Bush. We had at least 30 million Mexicans and Central Americans come here to do jobs "Americans won't do" while expanding H1B visas(2) We invaded 2 countries at the same time.(1) We gave 4 trillion to people who weren't creditworthy and then packaged up those mortgages into MBSs and CDOs and sold them overseas. (2&3) Meanwhile, we expanded our trade deficit with China.(3) The private sector has been recession since 1999 for a variety of reasons, including a lack of real productivity growth in the post-90s era and a worsening business environment in the US.

In order for Obama to have a wildly successful presidency, he really needs to only reverse 1 of the 3 policy pillars. He could say something to the effect of, "My fellow Americans, since we're in a New Great Depression, there's no reason we need any more immigrants for the foreseeable future. I'm closing the borders and going after employers who hire illegals." Or, "My fellow Americans, it is not our job to try to democratize the Muslims. We're pulling out of Afghanistan and Iraq (and Europe!) so that we can cut our defense budget and pay down our deficit." Etc.

These policy reversals would be wildly popular. No one wants the illegal Mexicans here. No one wants to be fighting overseas. No one wants their job shipped overseas to be done by foreigners. All 3 current policies constitute a war on the middle class, and the US is a middle class country. The military is primarily composed of the middle class (I've got data, so don't try to argue this with me), the middle class tradesmen are who primarily have to compete with the Mexicans (as well as the middle class who have to compete with H1B visa holders), and maintaining a trade deficit with China is only eroding our dollar and weakening our buying power.

If Obama reverses any of these current policies, we'll be calling him the next Reagan, I guarantee. As it stands right now, he's just wasting political capital on statist health care reform and things are starting to come to light about his past (ACORN), which will further hurt him. The way he can have so much political capital that none of those past things matter is to reverse some of our national policy pillars.

But I'm sure I'm all wrong. Let's hear your take.


#17

i was totally against pa, hell and i'm a consertative,sure does make me laugh about people trusting mr. hope and change. the march towards 1984 continues.


#18

Ultimate heartache.

Obama has continued rendition, Gitmo, and now wants to extend the Patriot Act.

I can appreciate that Obama is smart enough to realize the policies in place were always complicated "least worst" options that were never the caricatures their critics painted them as.

But he didn't run on that "realist" platform.

Obama's antiwar and anti-Bush wing of supporters have some explaining to do - shouldn't Obama's "nuanced" position in these be dealbreakers for their support? They have always maintained that there was no available compromise on such unmitigated acts of inhumanity - surely they will no longer support Obama?


#19

I am one of the dreaded "swing voters" in that I don't buy into either party's ideology 100%. On economic policy, I whole heartedly agree with conservative (not Republican) ideology. However, on war hawking, abortion, gay marriage, I side with liberals. I am coming to believe that in the end, entitlement programs are this country's biggest threat, so even though I disagree with Republican agenda on many things for my personal views, they may be the best choice.

Anyway for this particular election, this was my (abbreviated) calculus: Obama is bigger government, but I thought he was what we needed on the international stage to get everyone else to hate us slightly less. McCain, much better fiscal policy, but honestly choosing Palin made me question his strategy. In hindsight I do still prefer Obama's international stance to Bush (flame away), but I did not think he would go this far on the economic side.

Live and learn.


#20

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