T Nation

Obama Threatened to Shoot Down Israeli Planes

Holy shit.

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

Holy shit.[/quote]

What else would you expect of Barack Hussein Obama? People are worried about Islamists when the fact is they’re in the White House. The ME is teetering and as I’ve said before Obama has not backed el Sisi and the secular moderates. Barack Hussein Obama has backed the Muslim Brotherhood as a matter of policy. If King Abdullah dies the Israel will be plunged into another major war and if Obama or Hillary Abedin are in charge you can bet your bottom dollar that America will be against Israel andfor the IslamoNazis. I’ve often wondered how all these internationalist American Jews who I despise and who really do control Hollywood and the media as the anti-Semitic libel goes - I wonder how these hook nosed liberal slime will react when the Democrats are actually covertly waging war against the Jewish state. Those slime are a disgrace to their people and are a good part of the reason that anti-Semitism exists on the right.

The implications are serious. The Israeli air force is just as well equipped and trained as the Americans who would have been sent in to fight them. This would not have been another Marianas turkey shoot. Then once the shooting has started just how far is Obama willing to escalate it? The Israelis have enough nuclear weapons to take out aircraft carrier battle groups and then reduce the US to a pre-industrial state.

This could get real ugly. And for what? So the Iranians can be helped to get nuclear weapons that could be used against not only Israel but also the US and Europe.

I think the timing of this is important. It certainly puts a new perspective on Netanyahu’s speech to the congress on Tuesday. I knew when the Democrats were full of shit saying that it is inappropriate for Netanyahu to give this speech two weeks before the Israeli elections but in light of this revelation it sounds like the timing is highly appropriate.

It sounds like Netanyahu is going to tell the Congress that they are not going to accept a bad deal, so he is not going to be deterred from attacking Iran and unless they want Obama to take the US to war against Israel they are going to have to do something about it. Then he is going to go home and have a referendum where the Israeli people will have their say on the matter.

It immediately reminded me of the attack the Israelis carried out against Iraq in the early 80’s.

Let me get this right.

The “source” is a Kuwaiti newspaper (at least according to the translation from a Bethlehem based news service as reported by an Israeli website) with its anonymous and undefined sources “deep inside the Israeli government”…and they actually scooped everyone for this “world exclusive”?

My thoughts?

Where does this stuff come from?

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.

Mufasa

[quote]Alrightmiami19c wrote:

Holy shit.[/quote]

Wow. Just wow. I pretend I cannot be surprised anymore, but then something always comes up. I really don’t want to imagine a world where we did something like that. That would peg the ol’ ‘Oh Shit’ meter.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Let me get this right.

The “source” is a Kuwaiti newspaper (at least according to the translation from a Bethlehem based news service as reported by an Israeli website) with its anonymous and undefined sources “deep inside the Israeli government”…and they actually scooped everyone for this “world exclusive”?

My thoughts?

Where does this stuff come from?

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.

Mufasa [/quote]

Just because it sounds crazy does not mean it’s not true. This is not the National Enquirer we are talking about.
However to your point:

So there is reason to doubt. Now the original story is not out of step with this administration’s hostility towards Israel. But the administration does deny it.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.
[/quote]

Probably. This rumor has been going around for 4-5 years. I recall an article in Israel about a USAF officer saying a contingency plan for shooting down Israeli aircraft that over-flew Iraq existed in much more credible sources.

Of course, military people make contingency plans for everything. There are plans to combat alien invasions, for example.

Obama is unbelievably hostile to Israel. His first act as president was to call Hamas (a terrorist group, even according to Egypt).

He has scuttled long-planned military cooperation.

His adviser, Samantha Powers, advocated the invasion of Israel to assist Hamas.

Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran, speaks Persian, and I believe her parents still live there.

There is a long history of black antisemitism among blacks in the USA, and Obama went to (and was a leader in) a “church” that specifically preached the destruction of Israel for 10+ years.

Obama is also unbelievably thin-skinned and hostile to anyone who does not think he is the smartest guy in the whole world. So Israel disagreeing with his approach with Iran undoubtedly throws him into a rage.

Obama went into a temper-tantrum when Bibi did not act like the plantation Jews of the DNC and dares come to speak to Congress, no doubt in disagreement with Obama’s plan.

And Obama has turned Iraq into such a clusterfuck that the USA needs Iranian ground troops. So they are seeking to curry favor.

So, in short, this is a plausible story. I would hope there would be a revolt in the USAF and they would refuse the order, but soldiers follow orders. So probably it would be a fight.

+++++

All that said, I 100% doubt the reaction of Israel would be to push ahead with a limited strike on Iran and come into military conflict with the USA, let alone Israel having to nuke the USA in response (which, yes, we could do). Just not going to happen.

What would happen, and probably will happen if the USA interferes with a conventional strike, is Israel will be forced to use nuclear weapons on Iran in a preemptive strike. These could not be intercepted by the USA and would resolve the problem once and for all.

And Israel has no other choice. We’ve been backed into a corner.

I give the chances of a nuke strike at greater than 50%.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.
[/quote]

Probably. This rumor has been going around for 4-5 years. I recall an article in Israel about a USAF officer saying a contingency plan for shooting down Israeli aircraft that over-flew Iraq existed in much more credible sources.

Of course, military people make contingency plans for everything. There are plans to combat alien invasions, for example.

Obama is unbelievably hostile to Israel. His first act as president was to call Hamas (a terrorist group, even according to Egypt).

He has scuttled long-planned military cooperation.

His adviser, Samantha Powers, advocated the invasion of Israel to assist Hamas.

Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran, speaks Persian, and I believe her parents still live there.

There is a long history of black antisemitism among blacks in the USA, and Obama went to (and was a leader in) a “church” that specifically preached the destruction of Israel for 10+ years.

Obama is also unbelievably thin-skinned and hostile to anyone who does not think he is the smartest guy in the whole world. So Israel disagreeing with his approach with Iran undoubtedly throws him into a rage.

Obama went into a temper-tantrum when Bibi did not act like the plantation Jews of the DNC and dares come to speak to Congress, no doubt in disagreement with Obama’s plan.

And Obama has turned Iraq into such a clusterfuck that the USA needs Iranian ground troops. So they are seeking to curry favor.

So, in short, this is a plausible story. I would hope there would be a revolt in the USAF and they would refuse the order, but soldiers follow orders. So probably it would be a fight.

+++++

All that said, I 100% doubt the reaction of Israel would be to push ahead with a limited strike on Iran and come into military conflict with the USA, let alone Israel having to nuke the USA in response (which, yes, we could do). Just not going to happen.

What would happen, and probably will happen if the USA interferes with a conventional strike, is Israel will be forced to use nuclear weapons on Iran in a preemptive strike. These could not be intercepted by the USA and would resolve the problem once and for all.

And Israel has no other choice. We’ve been backed into a corner.

I give the chances of a nuke strike at greater than 50%.

[/quote]

Yeah, Obama hates Bibi because Bibi makes a fool out of him every time they meet.

While I agree that Obama is unbelievably hostile to Israel…I cannot see a U.S. Naval battle group shooting down Israeli planes.

But shit, he seems to love pooping on the Jews.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.
[/quote]

Probably. This rumor has been going around for 4-5 years. I recall an article in Israel about a USAF officer saying a contingency plan for shooting down Israeli aircraft that over-flew Iraq existed in much more credible sources.

Of course, military people make contingency plans for everything. There are plans to combat alien invasions, for example.

Obama is unbelievably hostile to Israel. His first act as president was to call Hamas (a terrorist group, even according to Egypt).

He has scuttled long-planned military cooperation.

His adviser, Samantha Powers, advocated the invasion of Israel to assist Hamas.

Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran, speaks Persian, and I believe her parents still live there.

There is a long history of black antisemitism among blacks in the USA, and Obama went to (and was a leader in) a “church” that specifically preached the destruction of Israel for 10+ years.

Obama is also unbelievably thin-skinned and hostile to anyone who does not think he is the smartest guy in the whole world. So Israel disagreeing with his approach with Iran undoubtedly throws him into a rage.

Obama went into a temper-tantrum when Bibi did not act like the plantation Jews of the DNC and dares come to speak to Congress, no doubt in disagreement with Obama’s plan.

And Obama has turned Iraq into such a clusterfuck that the USA needs Iranian ground troops. So they are seeking to curry favor.

So, in short, this is a plausible story. I would hope there would be a revolt in the USAF and they would refuse the order, but soldiers follow orders. So probably it would be a fight.

+++++

All that said, I 100% doubt the reaction of Israel would be to push ahead with a limited strike on Iran and come into military conflict with the USA, let alone Israel having to nuke the USA in response (which, yes, we could do). Just not going to happen.

What would happen, and probably will happen if the USA interferes with a conventional strike, is Israel will be forced to use nuclear weapons on Iran in a preemptive strike. These could not be intercepted by the USA and would resolve the problem once and for all.

And Israel has no other choice. We’ve been backed into a corner.

I give the chances of a nuke strike at greater than 50%.

[/quote]

JB:

I respect your opinion on these things than many of these twisted, convoluted and “unnamed” sources.

So let me ask this.

It would take planning (as you’ve alluded to) in order to shoot down Israeli planes going on bombing runs into Iran. I just don’t believe that there would not be one…not even ONE person in the chain-of command who would not leak such a plan to some GOP member of one of the Arms Services and/or Intelligence Committee’s; and if they did, that those GOP members would keep it silent.

Am I wrong here?

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

It would take planning (as you’ve alluded to) in order to shoot down Israeli planes going on bombing runs into Iran. I just don’t believe that there would not be one…not even ONE person in the chain-of command who would not leak such a plan to some GOP member of one of the Arms Services and/or Intelligence Committee’s; and if they did, that those GOP members would keep it silent.

Am I wrong here?

[/quote]

No, I don’t think you are wrong.

I think the contingency plans have, in fact, been leaked a rather long time ago. I distinctly recall the leak and it came out when Obama blocked the pre-planned sale of GBU-31 bunker buster bombs to Israel.

Of course, they are merely “contingency plans.” The USA probably has a contingency plan to invade Canada in the event of Maple Syrup shortage.

On the other hand, I am not sure Israel would admit to how hostile Obama is to Israel, however, nor would Republicans, as confirming Obama’s intent towards Israel would embolden Israel’s enemies — since the big dog would sit out the fight.

As to the existence of a “shoot-down order” (compared to a mere contingency plan), even though it would expose Israel’s lack of backing, I believe someone would talk.

Many, if not most, American pilots have trained in Israel (and IAF in the USA) and really good friendships exist among the pilots of both countries.

But then you have this jack ass all-but saying (back in 2010) he might give the order to shoot down Israeli planes if they crossed Iraq on the way to Iran:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/184838#.VPSX5uGYF8E

And you have Zbig Brzezinski (daughter on MSNBC): Shoot Down Israeli Planes if They Attack Iran

So, long way of saying, the situation is not implausible.

I do know that Israel will not confront the USA and go unconventional against Iran, however. I don’t doubt this for a second.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.
[/quote]

Probably. This rumor has been going around for 4-5 years. I recall an article in Israel about a USAF officer saying a contingency plan for shooting down Israeli aircraft that over-flew Iraq existed in much more credible sources.

Of course, military people make contingency plans for everything. There are plans to combat alien invasions, for example.

Obama is unbelievably hostile to Israel. His first act as president was to call Hamas (a terrorist group, even according to Egypt).

He has scuttled long-planned military cooperation.

His adviser, Samantha Powers, advocated the invasion of Israel to assist Hamas.

Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran, speaks Persian, and I believe her parents still live there.

There is a long history of black antisemitism among blacks in the USA, and Obama went to (and was a leader in) a “church” that specifically preached the destruction of Israel for 10+ years.

Obama is also unbelievably thin-skinned and hostile to anyone who does not think he is the smartest guy in the whole world. So Israel disagreeing with his approach with Iran undoubtedly throws him into a rage.

Obama went into a temper-tantrum when Bibi did not act like the plantation Jews of the DNC and dares come to speak to Congress, no doubt in disagreement with Obama’s plan.

And Obama has turned Iraq into such a clusterfuck that the USA needs Iranian ground troops. So they are seeking to curry favor.

So, in short, this is a plausible story. I would hope there would be a revolt in the USAF and they would refuse the order, but soldiers follow orders. So probably it would be a fight.

+++++

All that said, I 100% doubt the reaction of Israel would be to push ahead with a limited strike on Iran and come into military conflict with the USA, let alone Israel having to nuke the USA in response (which, yes, we could do). Just not going to happen.

What would happen, and probably will happen if the USA interferes with a conventional strike, is Israel will be forced to use nuclear weapons on Iran in a preemptive strike. These could not be intercepted by the USA and would resolve the problem once and for all.

And Israel has no other choice. We’ve been backed into a corner.

I give the chances of a nuke strike at greater than 50%.

[/quote]

JB:

I respect your opinion on these things than many of these twisted, convoluted and “unnamed” sources.

So let me ask this.

It would take planning (as you’ve alluded to) in order to shoot down Israeli planes going on bombing runs into Iran. I just don’t believe that there would not be one…not even ONE person in the chain-of command who would not leak such a plan to some GOP member of one of the Arms Services and/or Intelligence Committee’s; and if they did, that those GOP members would keep it silent.

Am I wrong here?

Mufasa
[/quote]

The GOP is made up of racist, rich people Muf…didn’t you hear?

Any leak would be spun by the white house as anti-Obama rhetoric.

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Let me get this right.

The “source” is a Kuwaiti newspaper (at least according to the translation from a Bethlehem based news service as reported by an Israeli website) with its anonymous and undefined sources “deep inside the Israeli government”…and they actually scooped everyone for this “world exclusive”?

My thoughts?

Where does this stuff come from?

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.

Mufasa [/quote]

The US Air Force has two air bases in Kuwait. One is less than sixty miles from the Iraq border. If the USAF was going to deploy against Israeli aircraft in Iraqi airspace they would most likely fly out of those bases.

Since USAF planes flying out of their territory would make Kuwait a target for any retaliatory response. It is standard practice that allies and countries hosting US bases have to give their permission for any military strikes originating from or passing through their territory.

Combine that with the fact that the Kuwaiti’s and the other Sunni’s have a vested interest in not letting Iran get a nuclear weapon, it makes perfect sense they would leak such a story.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

This President is neither going to shoot down Israeli planes and is not going to War with Israel.
[/quote]

Probably. This rumor has been going around for 4-5 years. I recall an article in Israel about a USAF officer saying a contingency plan for shooting down Israeli aircraft that over-flew Iraq existed in much more credible sources.

Of course, military people make contingency plans for everything. There are plans to combat alien invasions, for example.

Obama is unbelievably hostile to Israel. His first act as president was to call Hamas (a terrorist group, even according to Egypt).

He has scuttled long-planned military cooperation.

His adviser, Samantha Powers, advocated the invasion of Israel to assist Hamas.

Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran, speaks Persian, and I believe her parents still live there.

There is a long history of black antisemitism among blacks in the USA, and Obama went to (and was a leader in) a “church” that specifically preached the destruction of Israel for 10+ years.

Obama is also unbelievably thin-skinned and hostile to anyone who does not think he is the smartest guy in the whole world. So Israel disagreeing with his approach with Iran undoubtedly throws him into a rage.

Obama went into a temper-tantrum when Bibi did not act like the plantation Jews of the DNC and dares come to speak to Congress, no doubt in disagreement with Obama’s plan.

And Obama has turned Iraq into such a clusterfuck that the USA needs Iranian ground troops. So they are seeking to curry favor.

So, in short, this is a plausible story. I would hope there would be a revolt in the USAF and they would refuse the order, but soldiers follow orders. So probably it would be a fight.

+++++

All that said, I 100% doubt the reaction of Israel would be to push ahead with a limited strike on Iran and come into military conflict with the USA, let alone Israel having to nuke the USA in response (which, yes, we could do). Just not going to happen.

What would happen, and probably will happen if the USA interferes with a conventional strike, is Israel will be forced to use nuclear weapons on Iran in a preemptive strike. These could not be intercepted by the USA and would resolve the problem once and for all.

And Israel has no other choice. We’ve been backed into a corner.

I give the chances of a nuke strike at greater than 50%.

[/quote]

I know it seems a bit outlandish that the Israelis would use nukes against the US but as you have pointed out there are people in the Obama administration who are nutty enough to advocate for a US ground invasion of Israel. When people are stupid and fanatical enough to make such wildly insane suggestions, anything is possible.

Several years ago I pointed out that if the Israeli’s are the ones who do the deed instead of the US it will be much more likely that they would have to use nukes. Simply because of the fact that the Israelis don’t have the capacity to do multiple followup strikes so they need to do it right the first time. My prediction was they will use a series of conventional bunker busters to create an opening that they can shoot a nuke through.

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[/quote]

Yeah, Obama hates Bibi because Bibi makes a fool out of him every time they meet.[/quote]

Correction. Obama hates Bibi simply because Bibi exudes competence. When Obama stands next to someone who is highly competent like that, his own incompetence is magnified. So it’s Obama who makes a fool out of himself. Every time.