Obama Tells Israel 'No'

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Brother Chris wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Okay, while I actually agree we bow to Israel too much, the settlement expansion stuff makes no sense to me. I don’t understand the plan on stopping “expansion”. I mean, people have babies. Babies grow up to adults. Adults need housing. What is the plan logistically for even being able to stop expansion?

These are the only way I can see it as even possible:

Force people to not have babies
Deport the growth in population to other areas
Increase the homeless population
Force the population into denser and denser living conditions
Or some combination

What exactly do the people demanding an end to expansion think Israel should do? Is there some other option I’m not thinking of?

The problem is that the place they are building on, has had complications for the past 10 years. So they started the project ten years ago, had difficulties from then until now. All of a sudden the government of Israel let’s it all go like nothing is wrong, in a territory that the world does not view as Israel’s, even though Israel claimed it in the Middle East Wars.

They are building houses… not munitions factories…[/quote]

Ah yes squatting, what an amazing foreign policy tool!

[quote]pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.

Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.

Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.

I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.[/quote]

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.

I suspect this ‘no’ will amount to little - Israel isn’t scared of Obama, and it’s fair to say they don’t think they take orders from him, particularly after his softness with Iran.

Countries will continue to dare Obama - and that includes Israel.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery. [/quote]

You’re no stranger to stupid posts, but this serves as the red flag that no one should bother even skimming your nonsense. Bonus points for using the term “Jewry” and misstating the history w/r/t Indians - predictable.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Gregus wrote:

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.

You’re no stranger to stupid posts, but this serves as the red flag that no one should bother even skimming your nonsense. Bonus points for using the term “Jewry” and misstating the history w/r/t Indians - predictable.[/quote]

ARE YOU STUPID? ITS A HISTORICAL FACT YOU TWIT. Learn some history before you make an idiot out of yourself. Look at a older map sometime.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.

Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.

Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.

I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.

[/quote]

Then you must also believe that we should give the USA back to Mexico and Native Americans and bail.

Dude, you are so all over the map with your posts. I find it impossible to nail down what you really believe in.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

ARE YOU STUPID? ITS A HISTORICAL FACT YOU TWIT. Learn some history before you make an idiot out of yourself. Look at a older map sometime. [/quote]

Heh - setting aside your barely literate rant, it is not an “historical fact”. When the Ottoman Empire lost WWI, they faced the wages of losing - it lost control of an area it had gained through conquest. Israel was instituted by and through that loss.

An important lesson was learned - if you want to keep a tract of land you gained through conquest of your own, don’t start wars you can’t win.

Organized by the Jewish Agency , the Hidastrut (Union) with own properties, schools and settlements, (just like Hezbollah today) and of course plenty of money from all over the world, the immigration into Palestine starts to grow rapidly since 1933. By 1939 one third of the population and 12 % of the land are in jewish hand. The resistance of the original populace, Huseini of Jerusalem (Mufti) and King Abdallah continues to grow.
In the civil war 1936-1939 the British Aministration supports one time the Arab site and then the Jewish Haganah (jewish self appointed milizia-just like Hezbollah today) .
1939 the british government gives into the demands of the arab government (White paper politic) and limits immigration and purchase of land through the Jewish Agency. Against this politics groups of jewish terrorist fight. (Irgun, Zwai,Leumi)

The Jewish Agency - standing between indirect british antisemitism and german antisemitism takes the british side and starts to turn Palestine into a British Provision Hub and huge military base. The Arab government takes the site of the Axis Powers (Germany-Italy) . With WW 2coming to an end and the Exodus Tragedy Britain and the US pressuring the Arab government into accepting the large immigration waves of jews from across europe , especially however from Russia and Germany. Terror on both sites increases and no solution is found. In 1947 the UNSCOP recommends the divison of Palestine what is approved then by the UN. Approved by the Jewish Agency, rejected by the Arab Government and executed by Britain who in 1948 gave up their Mandate and left Palestine.

This is of course only the beginning of a tragedy and not the end of it as we all know it today. The state of israel was founded of course in its location based on the scripts of the prmosided land and was declared in 1948 by Ben Gurion.
Source(s):
DTV ATLAS OF WORLD HISTORY AND HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST IN THE LAST 100 YEARS.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Gregus wrote:
pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.

Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.

Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.

I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.

Then you must also believe that we should give the USA back to Mexico and Native Americans and bail.

Dude, you are so all over the map with your posts. I find it impossible to nail down what you really believe in.[/quote]

Because my beliefs can’t be pinned down. I have a very multi-track mind and have no one direction you can pin me in.

In reagrds to your posts, close but no cigar. This is a different issue and a different time. but overall the essence of what happened is correct, it just happened differently in Israel.

I used that as a very loose analogy.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Gregus wrote:

ARE YOU STUPID? ITS A HISTORICAL FACT YOU TWIT. Learn some history before you make an idiot out of yourself. Look at a older map sometime.

Heh - setting aside your barely literate rant, it is not an “historical fact”. When the Ottoman Empire lost WWI, they faced the wages of losing - it lost control of an area it had gained through conquest. Israel was instituted by and through that loss.

An important lesson was learned - if you want to keep a tract of land you gained through conquest of your own, don’t start wars you can’t win.[/quote]

So it was OK then, in today’s PC environment to allow a certain brown people to be genocided by another race you artificially allowed to insert into the region? I don;t want excuses on why it happened because either way a wrong is a wrong.

In other words, someone was living there already. Someone elses kids, parents and families called it home.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

So it was OK then, in today’s PC environment to allow a certain brown people to be genocided by another race you artificially allowed to insert into the region? I don;t want excuses on why it happened because either way a wrong is a wrong. [/quote]

What the hell are you talking about?

And regardless of what you are rambling about, races don’t have claims to territory. Secondly, Jewish people - more specifically, Israelis - are not interested in “genocide” of “brown people”…if they were, the “brown people” wouldn’t be there.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Gregus wrote:

So it was OK then, in today’s PC environment to allow a certain brown people to be genocided by another race you artificially allowed to insert into the region? I don;t want excuses on why it happened because either way a wrong is a wrong.

What the hell are you talking about?

And regardless of what you are rambling about, races don’t have claims to territory. Secondly, Jewish people - more specifically, Israelis - are not interested in “genocide” of “brown people”…if they were, the “brown people” wouldn’t be there.[/quote]

If you saw what they do to those people and the crap that recently came to the surface you’d realize it didn’t happen only because the world is watching. The irony is that the Jews or Israelis Are acting exactly the same way toward the Palestinians as the Nazi party acted toward the then Jews.

I guess saying Jew is antisemitic now too. I guess i thought Israel was more Enlightened.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

If you saw what they do to those people and the crap that recently came to the surface you’d realize it didn’t happen only because the world is watching.[/quote]

You - implausibly - assume I am somehow ignorant of current events in the region. Incorrect.

Wait - let’s memorialize this stupidity for the annals of PWI: Israelis are treating the Palestinians the same way the Nazis treated the Jews?

Someone alert Lifticus that someone is competing for “most asinine claims in a post” award.

Nope - but being anti-Semitic is.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

Because my beliefs can’t be pinned down. I have a very multi-track mind and have no one direction you can pin me in.

[/quote]

That’s called “inconsistency” and “hypocrisy.” I am far from a fan of Israel by any means- most here know that. But at least I’m consistently liberal… as oppose to… whatever exactly you are.

And by the way, you did just say in another thread that all Hitler did was pop up and say that the Jews were taking over, and that all the Germans were thinking that anyway. And then you said that the Jews were in fact taking over the country… which is the same fallacy that Hitler based the Holocaust on.

Basically, the only thing you’re showing consistently is… well, antisemitism.

[quote]pat wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
pat wrote:
Further proof that obama’s an idiot. Destabilizing relations with Israel will destabilized the ME. It will embolden Iran, hamas and hezbolah. He needs to practice the art of shutting the fuck up.

Israel is doing the wrong thing and will provoke another war. There is nothing wrong with trying to preempt that.

Israel does not have to do a damn thing but exist to provoke a war. This is built in to the hamas and hezbolah mission statements.

I think ultimately Israel should do one of two things. Either give the taken land to the palitinians and wish them luck, or make it all Israel and offer to bus any palestinian who has a problem with that to the nearest Arab country. This in between stuff is what is causing all the issues. As far as I am concerned Israel got that land fair and square from the 6 day war. You will find few lands in the world that were not won by conquest and war. 6 countries declared war on Israel. Israel kicked their ass and took there land; in 6 days. That’s pretty impressive.
Bottom line though, they should either claim the land or let it go, this status quo is keeping the region mired in conflict with no resolution.[/quote]

Pat. Agreed.
However, it’s not that simple. The Arab countries do NOT WANT the Palestinian Arabs. During one of the many bloody conflicts between fatah and Hamas, Egypt told their Gaza border guards
to break the legs of any Pal. Arab that tried to get into Egypt. So wghere did they go for refuge? To Israel!

In the last week or so Jordan has rescinded the citizenship of all Palestinian Arabs living there. Kuwait threw out 33000 of them in the early 1990’s Gulf War. The Arab countries do not want them so they can beat Israel around the head with them.

Oh, and the Islamic jihad of course. The one that has Hamas and Hezbollah so enthusiastic abotu dying for Allah.

Gregus - there have been Jews there - continuously - since the days that ancient Israel was Judea and Samaria.

I quote you back to yourself “Learn some history”:. A nice librarian will probably help sort out which books are the history ones, as opposed to the posters of Arab propaganda, who under the Islamic imperative rewrite history and conduct jihad to claim the whole of the Middle East as theirs, as per Mohammed’s deathbed instructions.

“Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing”
Not even comparable. Don’t project what happened in America to the Middle East - it is not the same at all.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Organized by the Jewish Agency , the Hidastrut (Union) with own properties, schools and settlements, (just like Hezbollah today) and of course plenty of money from all over the world, the immigration into Palestine starts to grow rapidly since 1933. By 1939 one third of the population and 12 % of the land are in jewish hand. The resistance of the original populace, Huseini of Jerusalem (Mufti) and King Abdallah continues to grow.
In the civil war 1936-1939 the British Aministration supports one time the Arab site and then the Jewish Haganah (jewish self appointed milizia-just like Hezbollah today) .
1939 the british government gives into the demands of the arab government (White paper politic) and limits immigration and purchase of land through the Jewish Agency. Against this politics groups of jewish terrorist fight. (Irgun, Zwai,Leumi)

The Jewish Agency - standing between indirect british antisemitism and german antisemitism takes the british side and starts to turn Palestine into a British Provision Hub and huge military base. The Arab government takes the site of the Axis Powers (Germany-Italy) . With WW 2coming to an end and the Exodus Tragedy Britain and the US pressuring the Arab government into accepting the large immigration waves of jews from across europe , especially however from Russia and Germany. Terror on both sites increases and no solution is found. In 1947 the UNSCOP recommends the divison of Palestine what is approved then by the UN. Approved by the Jewish Agency, rejected by the Arab Government and executed by Britain who in 1948 gave up their Mandate and left Palestine.

This is of course only the beginning of a tragedy and not the end of it as we all know it today. The state of israel was founded of course in its location based on the scripts of the prmosided land and was declared in 1948 by Ben Gurion.
Source(s):
DTV ATLAS OF WORLD HISTORY AND HISTORY OF THE MIDDLE EAST IN THE LAST 100 YEARS.[/quote]

Say, Gregus, did you enjoy the pictures of haj Amin el Husseini with Hitler and his formation of two Muslim SS units in the Balkans that killed thousands of people, including his pet Islamic bugbear - lots of Jews?

Check it out here.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Gregus wrote:

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.

You’re no stranger to stupid posts, but this serves as the red flag that no one should bother even skimming your nonsense. Bonus points for using the term “Jewry” and misstating the history w/r/t Indians - predictable.[/quote]

Not to mention grossly mistating ‘Iraeli/Palestine’ history as well

[quote]Gregus wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Gregus wrote:

WRONG! Let me remind everyone that ISRAEL should not exist. It was artificially created after WW2 and the Jews just started arriving on OTHER PEOPLES LAND. Like the colonists did with the native Indians. That kind of thing.

Realize that Israel should not be here in the first place and then you’ll realize that all those “terrorists” fighting them are actually the oppressed people displaced by Israels Jewery.

You’re no stranger to stupid posts, but this serves as the red flag that no one should bother even skimming your nonsense. Bonus points for using the term “Jewry” and misstating the history w/r/t Indians - predictable.

ARE YOU STUPID? ITS A HISTORICAL FACT YOU TWIT. Learn some history before you make an idiot out of yourself. Look at a older map sometime.
[/quote]

Your statement is grossly oversimplified. Grossly mistated. Grossly wrong. Open a book.