Obama IRS Targets Conservative and Jewish Groups

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

I agree. But only one of those two groups continually and publicly rails against taxation in virtually all of its forms. One of those groups is far more likely to circumvent the taxation process as a result. That is simply another angle to this thing that people seem to forget. It’s not necessarily right or just, but perhaps all the anti-tax rhetoric from the Tea Party provoked some extra attention pointed in their direction.[/quote]

Oh for fuck’s sake, Bert, this is the lamest post you’ve ever typed on PWI.[/quote]

A main difference between liberals and conservatives is liberals think it’s great the IRS is used to harass Jews, Conservatives, and other potential political enemies of liberals, but if the IRS was used to harass liberals (as Nixon also used it), conservatives are horrified at the corruption and root it out.

In a related topic:

Reporter Claims IRS Harassment After Tough Obama Interview

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

I agree. But only one of those two groups continually and publicly rails against taxation in virtually all of its forms. One of those groups is far more likely to circumvent the taxation process as a result. That is simply another angle to this thing that people seem to forget. It’s not necessarily right or just, but perhaps all the anti-tax rhetoric from the Tea Party provoked some extra attention pointed in their direction.[/quote]

Oh for fuck’s sake, Bert, this is the lamest post you’ve ever typed on PWI.[/quote]

A main difference between liberals and conservatives is liberals think it’s great the IRS is used to harass Jews, Conservatives, and other potential political enemies of liberals, but if the IRS was used to harass liberals (as Nixon also used it), conservatives are horrified at the corruption and root it out.

In a related topic:

Reporter Claims IRS Harassment After Tough Obama Interview

http://www.redstate.com/dloesch/2013/05/14/reporter-claims-irs-harassment-after-tough-obama-interview/[/quote]

These scandals are getting a lot of traction. Lets see where they go and if abuse of power was used. I would be lying if I was not happy about this. This country has been through enough the past 5-6 years. We are strong and will get through this I just hope it does not divide us even more.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
I just hope it does not divide us even more.[/quote]

Of course it will. All this does is further divide us, and it isn’t like we want to come together anyway.

We elected a man that refers to people as enemy’s if they disagree with his politics. You think JFK would have been caught dead saying “voting is the best revenge” or “you didn’t build that” or “spread the wealth around”? Fuck no. I doubt Eisenhower would have signed the Patriot act and no bones JFK would have re-upped it like George W Obama has…

This thread is a perfect example. Instead of people being pretty upset about obvious trampling of First Amendment rights for blatant political purposes, they are cheering it on, equating it to birthers, or otherwise trying to poo-poo the whole deal.

As much as I dislike MMfA or OFA I would be just as pissed if it was them this happened to, rather than conservative groups. Because it doesn’t matter who the target is as much as the IRS can and has been used to target groups…

We live in crazy times, lead by crazy people, who are controlled, not by us, but by crazy money. Asking people to wake up and see that it isn’t rich people that are evil, but the government is a tall order these days. The low information voter has become the “cool” thing to be. Just look at the success of O’Reily and the Daily Show for proof…

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Coop,

Do you REALLY think this came from some low level scrubs at the IRS ?

They went after 298 groups, you think just a few people were involved with that many investigations ?

This was an enemies list, plain and simple.

They stalled the Tea Party from their tax exempt status, to slow down their ability to get out the vote for the 2012 elections. The Waco Tea Party applied for tax exempt status in June 2010, and only NOW got accepted.

Pure coincidence eh ?[/quote]

The other thing, Max, is that if these groups were using their tax-exempt status to get out the vote and actively participate in candidate’s campaigns then it was a violation of the terms of their tax exemption. Tax-exempt groups cannot primarily or actively engage in political campaigns, nor can they lobby Congress.

So the reality is that if these groups had a discernible impact on the outcome of the election they were more than likely having that impact in violation of the terms of their tax-exempt status to begin with.

I for one am kind of glad that the IRS was doing this. The net effect of this whole controversy could be that the IRS FINALLY looks into how it hands out tax exemptions to super PACs and what the parameters for enjoying tax exemptions are. Those are changes to the way campaigns are run that should be vigorously investigated and undertaken, and perhaps in the long run, or maybe even in the short run, this little scandal will jumpstart that process.[/quote]

If the goal of the IRS was to investigate tax exempt organizations to make sure they were following the rules, they would have looked at BOTH Liberal and Conservative groups.

Your argument sounds like my ex-girlfriend, “what’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine.”[/quote]

I agree. But only one of those two groups continually and publicly rails against taxation in virtually all of its forms. One of those groups is far more likely to circumvent the taxation process as a result. That is simply another angle to this thing that people seem to forget. It’s not necessarily right or just, but perhaps all the anti-tax rhetoric from the Tea Party provoked some extra attention pointed in their direction.[/quote]

Do you know how many Democrats find ways to avoid taxes ? Especially here in Cali, the Hollywood and Tech industries get tax breaks all the time.
[/quote]

Well, of course EVERYONE tries to avoid paying taxes wherever and whenever possible. My point is that of the two general groups, liberals and conservatives, the Tea Party aspect of American conservatism is by far the most vocally anti-taxation of them all. So it’s entirely possible that the IRS employees in question targeted them, in part, because they essentially made themselves easier targets than others due to their vocal anti-tax rhetoric.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

We live in crazy times, lead by crazy people, who are controlled, not by us, but by crazy money. Asking people to wake up and see that it isn’t rich people that are evil, but the government is a tall order these days. The low information voter has become the “cool” thing to be. Just look at the success of O’Reily and the Daily Show for proof… [/quote]

I think the American Public is waking up. I have faith in the American People, but lets see how this all pans out.

I am really pissed that our rights are being trampled on and seeing that people don’t care pisses me off also.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Coop,

Do you REALLY think this came from some low level scrubs at the IRS ?

They went after 298 groups, you think just a few people were involved with that many investigations ?

This was an enemies list, plain and simple.

They stalled the Tea Party from their tax exempt status, to slow down their ability to get out the vote for the 2012 elections. The Waco Tea Party applied for tax exempt status in June 2010, and only NOW got accepted.

Pure coincidence eh ?[/quote]

The other thing, Max, is that if these groups were using their tax-exempt status to get out the vote and actively participate in candidate’s campaigns then it was a violation of the terms of their tax exemption. Tax-exempt groups cannot primarily or actively engage in political campaigns, nor can they lobby Congress.

So the reality is that if these groups had a discernible impact on the outcome of the election they were more than likely having that impact in violation of the terms of their tax-exempt status to begin with.

I for one am kind of glad that the IRS was doing this. The net effect of this whole controversy could be that the IRS FINALLY looks into how it hands out tax exemptions to super PACs and what the parameters for enjoying tax exemptions are. Those are changes to the way campaigns are run that should be vigorously investigated and undertaken, and perhaps in the long run, or maybe even in the short run, this little scandal will jumpstart that process.[/quote]

If the goal of the IRS was to investigate tax exempt organizations to make sure they were following the rules, they would have looked at BOTH Liberal and Conservative groups.

Your argument sounds like my ex-girlfriend, “what’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine.”[/quote]

I agree. But only one of those two groups continually and publicly rails against taxation in virtually all of its forms. One of those groups is far more likely to circumvent the taxation process as a result. That is simply another angle to this thing that people seem to forget. It’s not necessarily right or just, but perhaps all the anti-tax rhetoric from the Tea Party provoked some extra attention pointed in their direction.[/quote]

Do you know how many Democrats find ways to avoid taxes ? Especially here in Cali, the Hollywood and Tech industries get tax breaks all the time.
[/quote]

Well, of course EVERYONE tries to avoid paying taxes wherever and whenever possible. My point is that of the two general groups, liberals and conservatives, the Tea Party aspect of American conservatism is by far the most vocally anti-taxation of them all. So it’s entirely possible that the IRS employees in question targeted them, in part, because they essentially made themselves easier targets than others due to their vocal anti-tax rhetoric. [/quote]

OR, they were trying to obstruct the Tea Party seeing how successful they were in 2010 ?

Coop, you are talking about the cover story, that is not the REAL story.

This was meant to disrupt the Tea Party with their election strategy.

[quote]DBCooper wrote:
Well, of course EVERYONE tries to avoid paying taxes wherever and whenever possible. My point is that of the two general groups, liberals and conservatives, the Tea Party aspect of American conservatism is by far the most vocally anti-taxation of them all. So it’s entirely possible that the IRS employees in question targeted them, in part, because they essentially made themselves easier targets than others due to their vocal anti-tax rhetoric. [/quote]

I guess targeting government employees, who owe the IRS billions of dollars was too much work?

This had nothing to do with possible cheating. It was Chicago-style thuggery.

Jewbacca, did you see the IRS statement that basically just was, “We’re sorry?” Next time I have to pay taxes I think I’ll put a line in my statement that reads, " Didn’t want to pay my taxes this year, I’m sorry…pay you next year." The circles of power play are insane.

I have an off question. I have a cousin that lives in Israel who got out of service somehow by being in college. What do you think of this? I have seen that many young people of service age are getting out of the obligation and it’s upsetting some people in Israel. Interested in your thoughts.
Also, just saw The Debt a movie about Mossad agents hunting an old Nazi. Have you seen this movie? What did you think? Reminded me of my family that live in Israel and have served their country and faith very intensely.

Now this was a great response, heh.

IRS Asks for Reading List, Tea Party Group Sends Constitution

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Coop,

Do you REALLY think this came from some low level scrubs at the IRS ?

They went after 298 groups, you think just a few people were involved with that many investigations ?

This was an enemies list, plain and simple.

They stalled the Tea Party from their tax exempt status, to slow down their ability to get out the vote for the 2012 elections. The Waco Tea Party applied for tax exempt status in June 2010, and only NOW got accepted.

Pure coincidence eh ?[/quote]

The other thing, Max, is that if these groups were using their tax-exempt status to get out the vote and actively participate in candidate’s campaigns then it was a violation of the terms of their tax exemption. Tax-exempt groups cannot primarily or actively engage in political campaigns, nor can they lobby Congress.

So the reality is that if these groups had a discernible impact on the outcome of the election they were more than likely having that impact in violation of the terms of their tax-exempt status to begin with.

I for one am kind of glad that the IRS was doing this. The net effect of this whole controversy could be that the IRS FINALLY looks into how it hands out tax exemptions to super PACs and what the parameters for enjoying tax exemptions are. Those are changes to the way campaigns are run that should be vigorously investigated and undertaken, and perhaps in the long run, or maybe even in the short run, this little scandal will jumpstart that process.[/quote]

If the goal of the IRS was to investigate tax exempt organizations to make sure they were following the rules, they would have looked at BOTH Liberal and Conservative groups.

Your argument sounds like my ex-girlfriend, “what’s yours is mine, what’s mine is mine.”[/quote]

I agree. But only one of those two groups continually and publicly rails against taxation in virtually all of its forms. One of those groups is far more likely to circumvent the taxation process as a result. That is simply another angle to this thing that people seem to forget. It’s not necessarily right or just, but perhaps all the anti-tax rhetoric from the Tea Party provoked some extra attention pointed in their direction.[/quote]

Do you know how many Democrats find ways to avoid taxes ? Especially here in Cali, the Hollywood and Tech industries get tax breaks all the time.
[/quote]

Well, of course EVERYONE tries to avoid paying taxes wherever and whenever possible. My point is that of the two general groups, liberals and conservatives, the Tea Party aspect of American conservatism is by far the most vocally anti-taxation of them all. So it’s entirely possible that the IRS employees in question targeted them, in part, because they essentially made themselves easier targets than others due to their vocal anti-tax rhetoric. [/quote]

OR, they were trying to obstruct the Tea Party seeing how successful they were in 2010 ?

Coop, you are talking about the cover story, that is not the REAL story.

This was meant to disrupt the Tea Party with their election strategy. [/quote]

How was this disrupting their election strategy? The targeted groups, by virtue of their tax-exempt status, were not or would not have been allowed to participate in partisan campaigning of any sort. And if the groups seeking tax-exempt status WERE doing so, then the IRS was right in what they did. They just should have given the same attention to other groups as well.

I am not defending the idea of targeted investigations, only the idea of investigations as whole. I cannot point out any more clearly that if these Tea Party groups were involved in active campaigning against Democratic candidates, then they were in violation of their tax-exempt status anyways, so their complaints about these investigations are essentially moot. The IRS would have been entirely correct in investigating them.

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Cleta Mitchell to Newsmax: IRS Scandal Reaches to White House

http://www.newsmax.com/Newswidget/irs-obama-tea-party/2013/05/14/id/504419?promo_code=10731-1&utm_source=10731Daily_Caller&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1#ixzz2TJlBRKwf

[/quote]

Well, if a lawyer for one of the Tea Party groups says she believes it’s so, then it must be so. What’s her proof? That the people accused of performing these targeted investigations are now trying to shift the blame to Washington instead?

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Cleta Mitchell to Newsmax: IRS Scandal Reaches to White House

http://www.newsmax.com/Newswidget/irs-obama-tea-party/2013/05/14/id/504419?promo_code=10731-1&utm_source=10731Daily_Caller&utm_medium=nmwidget&utm_campaign=widgetphase1#ixzz2TJlBRKwf

[/quote]

Well, if a lawyer for one of the Tea Party groups says she believes it’s so, then it must be so. What’s her proof? That the people accused of performing these targeted investigations are now trying to shift the blame to Washington instead?[/quote]

All I did was post the link.

You can dress it up in a tutu if you’d like.

Bottom line is you have no business attaching any firm credence to your speculation that Harvey Mid-Level Management who used to work for WKRP in Cincinnati just dreamed this up on his own one day while watching his daughter play junior high softball.
[/quote]

I’m more interested in what Jay Stone has to say about this issue now, Push.

I may have no business attaching credence to any of my theories, but suffice it to say that they are based in more reality than some conspiracy about the Chicago political machine covertly running Obama and ultimately being the ones behind this whole ordeal, which I think is the point you are trying to make here. I can’t really be too sure since you’re apparently relying on an utter fool in jay Stone to make your points for you.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

I’m more interested in what Jay Stone has to say about this issue now, Push.

I may have no business attaching credence to any of my theories, but suffice it to say that they are based in more reality than some conspiracy about the Chicago political machine covertly running Obama and ultimately being the ones behind this whole ordeal, which I think is the point you are trying to make here. I can’t really be too sure since you’re apparently relying on an utter fool in jay Stone to make your points for you.[/quote]

Bert, don’t climb in the ring with me and expect to sit there and get your nails done. Box, don’t whine.[/quote]

Don’t send someone else into the ring to box with me then.

I feel like we’re having the same discussion in the other thread, so I’m going to abandon this one now in favor of that one. It seems to have gained more traction than this one.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]drunkpig wrote:

…Barry’s Chicago-style politics…

[/quote]

The Bam apologists keep overlooking this fact. Bam is “owned.” He is in the clutches of a good ol’ fashioned Tammany Hall octopus.[/quote]

Truer words were never spoken, he’s definitely handled in everything he does. That’s why he’s in the White House, he’ll do anything they want him to do.

Not to get our hopes up, how do these scandals (more coming I’m hearing…) stack up against Nixon and Watergate?

Rob

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Now this was a great response, heh.

IRS Asks for Reading List, Tea Party Group Sends Constitution

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/irs-asks-for-reading-list-tea-party-group-sends-constitution/[/quote]

I like the first comment…

“If Nixon had a son, he would look like Obama.”

Coop,

I take you to be a a better man that you are portraying.

This was not about investigations, this was about delaying giving tax exempt status for up to 2 years, for certain groups that disagree with the current administration.

Please don’t play dumb, I don’t have the patience, and I know you are better than this.

After the shit we see here in California, even this is the Diet Coke of politics.