[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
We don’t have to give them constitutional rights until they are on US soil. This is all about the democrats desire to politicize the ongoing overseas contingency operation.
That is blatant nonsense because the US constitution, ahem, constitutes what the US government can or cannot do, wherever it may act.
You are very very wrong about that. Non US citizens who are not on US soil are not entitled to the rights of a US citizen. A non US citzen has to be physically on US soil to be entitled to the same rights as a US citizen.
And again:
The US Constitution does not apply " to US citizens".
It addresses the federal government of the United States and tells it what it can or cannot do.
There is not even a war on right now, because congress has not declared one.
[/quote]
You do not know what you are talking about. The constitution does not spell everything out in black and white, it has some grey areas like Executive priviledge to allow the government flexibility to deal with new contingencies.
You are living in a dreamworld if you do not think that there is a war going on. We have a foreign army that has taken over other countries, invaded our country, caused mass casualties and is seeking to overthrow our government to impose it’s own form of government upon us.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?[/quote]
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.[/quote]
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.[/quote]
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice.
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice.
Edit: I also oppose the death sentence for these people, as well as labeling them “war criminals” or anything else that would cause their glorification to other extremists. They’re common criminals, and making martyrs of them is the worst thing we can do. Send them to solitary at one of the supermax facilities for many, many more years than they can be expected to live. Gone and soon forgotten.
[quote]tme wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice.
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice.
Edit: I also oppose the death sentence for these people, as well as labeling them “war criminals” or anything else that would cause their glorification to other extremists. They’re common criminals, and making martyrs of them is the worst thing we can do. Send them to solitary at one of the supermax facilities for many, many more years than they can be expected to live. Gone and soon forgotten.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.[/quote]
What I am saying is that you are meant to be a civilized society, not made up of mindless animals.
Now I can’t wait for pusshy to chime in with some equally witty repartee about Montana being on top or something equally asinine. Wow you guys are sharp!
I do have some questions. At what point is an enemy combatant treated, well, like an enemy combatant; therefore, subject to military tribunal? Did early Americans run enemy combatants through our courts?
This notion, about these folks being common criminals, common murderers, boggles the mind. To me this an astonishing position to hold. Completely divorced from reality, really. Maybe you don’t see yourself at war with these folks, but they damn sure are waging war against us. A holy war, to be precise.
And a war with political goals. Debate about torture is a seperate issue. Our enemy should still be facing military tribunals. Yes, they ARE our enemy. Is it going to take a biological weapon? Buses/trains exploding? This isn’t Joe Blow crackdealer shooting the competition. This is a movement at war.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I do have some questions. At what point is an enemy combatant treated, well, like an enemy combatant; therefore, subject to military tribunal? Did early Americans run enemy combatants through our courts?
This notion, about these folks being common criminals, common murderers, boggles the mind. To me this an astonishing position to hold. Completely divorced from reality, really. Maybe you don’t see yourself at war with these folks, but they damn sure are waging war against us. A holy war, to be precise.
And a war with political goals. Debate about torture is a seperate issue. Our enemy should still be facing military tribunals. Yes, they ARE our enemy. Is it going to take a biological weapon? Buses/trains exploding? This isn’t Joe Blow crackdealer shooting the competition. This is a movement at war.[/quote]
Also true. But you have to realize that these people WANT death. I think prosecution through a military tribunal and life behind bars would be the ideal here.
[quote]tme wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice.
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice.
Edit: I also oppose the death sentence for these people, as well as labeling them “war criminals” or anything else that would cause their glorification to other extremists. They’re common criminals, and making martyrs of them is the worst thing we can do. Send them to solitary at one of the supermax facilities for many, many more years than they can be expected to live. Gone and soon forgotten.
[/quote]
Wow ~ that’s a pretty high minded post. I’m guessing you are pretty upset that Obama continues to use predators / drones to target and kill Al Qaeda in Pakistan correct? No miranda rights or warrents or subpoenas.
Even when there is collateral damage…? I’m not hearing much from the left (or therapeutic thinkers like you) on this little issue. No screams about “justice being denied”. How do you explain that?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
tme wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice.
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice.
Edit: I also oppose the death sentence for these people, as well as labeling them “war criminals” or anything else that would cause their glorification to other extremists. They’re common criminals, and making martyrs of them is the worst thing we can do. Send them to solitary at one of the supermax facilities for many, many more years than they can be expected to live. Gone and soon forgotten.
Wow ~ that’s a pretty high minded post. I’m guessing you are pretty upset that Obama continues to use predators / drones to target and kill Al Qaeda in Pakistan correct? No miranda rights or warrents or subpoenas…
Good point.
I guess right after Bush Admin. officials are prosecuted for torture, Obama officials should be prosecuted for search and seizure without warrants. Timmy shouldn’t have a problem with that other than his Messiah’s crown being tarnished.
[/quote]
I’ll say this for the KSM ~ unlike our president, he won’t need a teleprompter for his talking points, to go ranting on ad nausem about the evils of the US, Bush, Cheny, jews,. This trial gives them what they wanted. A world stage. I guess they won’t have a problem finding decent halal food in NCY… Anyway it’s a bad Idea.
Another thing I’d like to ask Holder ~ you wouldn’t water board him, but you will put him to death?
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
What I am saying is that you are meant to be a civilized society, not made up of mindless animals.
Apparently you disagree?[/quote]
This might be my lacking something somewhere, but I am not seeing your train of thought here. I read both of these posts about 10 times each.
[quote]tme wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice. [/quote]
Grow up and spare us the moralistic Boy Scout bullshit. There is a war going on. War is hell. If you are going to fight in a war you are going to get dirty, you are going to get bloody and you are going to do things that you are not going to be proud of because that is the nature of war.
We have dropped bombs on houses knowing that there were innocent children who were going to die in order take out some really bad adults who were also in that house. With those bombs we have repreatedly crossed a moral line that is far worse than holding KSM’s head under water for a couple of minutes.
In the past we have done nasty things that our enemies have done because they started it. Hitler carpet bombed cities, we carpet bombed cities. The Japanese used WMD in China and they were going to use them again to fend off our invasion, so we nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
We did what we had to do in order to save OUR peoples lives by bringing the war to a favorable conclusion as quickly as possible.
When the founding fathers wrote the bill of rights bill of rights they didn’t have our enemies in mind. Those laws are intended to protect OUR people from OUR government, not to tie our hands behind our backs when fighting a war against enemies who want to take away our system of law.
[quote]
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice. [/quote]
The revelations that you are hoping for is going to be a massive self inflicted wound that our enemies will use for recruiting. Liberal pussy’s who will not help us will applaud it but ihey will not impress anyone to help or support us.
Going after and prosecuting the Bush administration will set a legal precedent that will undermine our ability to defend the nation and our way of life for all generations to come.
This is all about the Democrats playing politics with our national security.
How the hell can you call declaring war on the United states then bringing down the world trade center trying to kill 50,000 people and attacking the Pentagon a common crime? When else has somethinbg like that happened?
Our enemies say we are in a war. They are seeking to destroy our army, take away our land, kill our people and impose their government on us, that is war. So get a fucking clue.
You are living in a dream world. Criminals in the supermax facilities have been able to communicate with the outside world which is the last thing we want these terrorists doing. Their followers aren’t going to forget about them. There is a likelyhood that they will commit terrorist acts trying to get them out just like they have done in the past.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
We don’t have to give them constitutional rights until they are on US soil. This is all about the democrats desire to politicize the ongoing overseas contingency operation.
That is blatant nonsense because the US constitution, ahem, constitutes what the US government can or cannot do, wherever it may act.
You are very very wrong about that. Non US citizens who are not on US soil are not entitled to the rights of a US citizen. A non US citzen has to be physically on US soil to be entitled to the same rights as a US citizen.
And again:
The US Constitution does not apply " to US citizens".
It addresses the federal government of the United States and tells it what it can or cannot do.
There is not even a war on right now, because congress has not declared one.
You do not know what you are talking about. The constitution does not spell everything out in black and white, it has some grey areas like Executive priviledge to allow the government flexibility to deal with new contingencies.
You are living in a dreamworld if you do not think that there is a war going on. We have a foreign army that has taken over other countries, invaded our country, caused mass casualties and is seeking to overthrow our government to impose it’s own form of government upon us.
If that is not war what is it?
[/quote]
The point is that neither this administration not the last can have it both ways.
Either they follow the constitution, well then you have to declare war a certain way and then its on.
Or they dont and then they do not get to be a “war time” president.
To selectively ignore the constitution whenever it does not suit them has a long tradition and is still wrong.
[quote]Tokoya wrote:
tme wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice.
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice.
Edit: I also oppose the death sentence for these people, as well as labeling them “war criminals” or anything else that would cause their glorification to other extremists. They’re common criminals, and making martyrs of them is the worst thing we can do. Send them to solitary at one of the supermax facilities for many, many more years than they can be expected to live. Gone and soon forgotten.
Wow ~ that’s a pretty high minded post. I’m guessing you are pretty upset that Obama continues to use predators / drones to target and kill Al Qaeda in Pakistan correct? No miranda rights or warrents or subpoenas.
Even when there is collateral damage…? I’m not hearing much from the left (or therapeutic thinkers like you) on this little issue. No screams about “justice being denied”. How do you explain that?
Right ~ you can’t.
[/quote]
I don’t know why this is so tough on people.
The whole of human history is replete with, indeed consists of, examples.
When a very large body of armed people are unwaveringly committed to hastening your demise, you must hasten theirs first by whatever means are required.
Here’s a tip. When you have to follow rules that they don’t. You lose. Even if you’re bigger than they are.
These twerps who worry more about what these barbarians think OF us than they do about what they’re doing TO us are destroying the country my children will live in. It’s much more than some words of disagreement on a computer screen.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Tokoya wrote:
tme wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Makavali wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
Because you aren’t them. No matter what comparisons people want to make between you, no matter how much morons want to say you deserved 9/11, you just aren’t them.
Are you saying here that while US citizens are being stripped of THEIR rights, foreign invaders are getting them instead? I am asking this in all sincerity. I don’t mean this as a slam, I really don’t, but I have a hard time following your posts sometimes.
Because we don’t torture our prisoners. We don’t deny habeas corpus. We don’t sink to the level of whatever piece of shit attacks us and use “well he did it first” as justification. Because we’re a nation of laws and we apply those laws evenly and without prejudice.
Some of what we’ve done over the past several years in the name of “national security” is going to come out in a public trial, and it’s going to cause some shame and hopefully some reevaluation of who we really are. Hopefully after the pieces of shit who attacked us are dealt with, the other pieces of shit who ordered their torture will also be brought to justice.
Edit: I also oppose the death sentence for these people, as well as labeling them “war criminals” or anything else that would cause their glorification to other extremists. They’re common criminals, and making martyrs of them is the worst thing we can do. Send them to solitary at one of the supermax facilities for many, many more years than they can be expected to live. Gone and soon forgotten.
Wow ~ that’s a pretty high minded post. I’m guessing you are pretty upset that Obama continues to use predators / drones to target and kill Al Qaeda in Pakistan correct? No miranda rights or warrents or subpoenas.
Even when there is collateral damage…? I’m not hearing much from the left (or therapeutic thinkers like you) on this little issue. No screams about “justice being denied”. How do you explain that?
Right ~ you can’t.
I don’t know why this is so tough on people.
The whole of human history is replete with, indeed consists of, examples.
When a very large body of armed people are unwaveringly committed to hastening your demise, you must hasten theirs first by whatever means are required.
Here’s a tip. When you have to follow rules that they don’t. You lose. Even if you’re bigger than they are.
These twerps who worry more about what these barbarians think OF us than they do about what they’re doing TO us are destroying the country my children will live in. It’s much more than some words of disagreement on a computer screen.[/quote]
I think we are more worried about what YOU will do to US in the name of doing it to THEM.
The law of unintended consequences is not suspended in times of “war”.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
orion wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Cortes wrote:
Why is this piece of shit being afforded Constitutional rights?
We don’t have to give them constitutional rights until they are on US soil. This is all about the democrats desire to politicize the ongoing overseas contingency operation.
That is blatant nonsense because the US constitution, ahem, constitutes what the US government can or cannot do, wherever it may act.
You are very very wrong about that. Non US citizens who are not on US soil are not entitled to the rights of a US citizen. A non US citzen has to be physically on US soil to be entitled to the same rights as a US citizen.
And again:
The US Constitution does not apply " to US citizens".
It addresses the federal government of the United States and tells it what it can or cannot do.
There is not even a war on right now, because congress has not declared one.
You do not know what you are talking about. The constitution does not spell everything out in black and white, it has some grey areas like Executive priviledge to allow the government flexibility to deal with new contingencies.
You are living in a dreamworld if you do not think that there is a war going on. We have a foreign army that has taken over other countries, invaded our country, caused mass casualties and is seeking to overthrow our government to impose it’s own form of government upon us.
If that is not war what is it?
The point is that neither this administration not the last can have it both ways.
Either they follow the constitution, well then you have to declare war a certain way and then its on.
Or they dont and then they do not get to be a “war time” president.
To selectively ignore the constitution whenever it does not suit them has a long tradition and is still wrong.
[/quote]
This country has only declared war five times in it’s entire history. We have fought a lot of wars without a formal declaration of war.
Before Hitler delcared war on the US the US navy was fighting in the battle of the Atlantic and losing ships to U-boats.
When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor we immediately fought back, we didn’t wait for congress to formally declare war.
There was no declaration of war when we fought in Korea, Vietnam, Granada, Panama, the gulf war.
So if you think that in our past we have only ever fought after a declaration of war or that we need a declaration of war in order to use the military you are very much mistaken and don’t know what you are talking about.