T Nation

Nutritional foundation

I was wondering if I could get some of your recommendations on what to do.

My wife and I are starting the Meltdown training on Monday the 8th. We did it this week but it was more for orientation than actual progress.

My question would pertain to diet. Not which diet but recommendations where to start. My thoughts are since our eating has been haphazard,
100kcal one day, 1000 the next, 3000 the next, 500…(these aren’t exact numbers but to give you an idea of how undisciplined it’s been),
that we would for 4 weeks actually eat about 12times our lean weight with a 50/50 split of pros & fat.

After the month we would then switch to the FatFast and do that for 6-8 weeks. We have some Methoxy on hand and placed an order for more and I will take a combination of the “max fat loss” & the “max muscle mass” cycle.

Would this be correct or should we just start with the fatfast? My assumption is our metabolism is so screwed up that the month of constant feedings would stabilize it. Should the month be more like 2?

Thanks!
Guido

i’d like to know too.

I think that it is a mistake to jump from a non-disciplined eating program into something as extreme as a no carb diet. I also don’t think that meltdown training combines well without a no/low carb diet unless you are adequately using BCAA’s and glutamine during and after training. You can find info on supplementing with BCAA’s and glutamine in issues 12-16 at intensity magazine. Kelly Baggett was the author on those articles. There are also some recommendations in a recent iron dog column by Don Alessi. If you are set on doing this program, then I would suggest using an eating program that you can maintain for a lifetime and learn from. Something like the Don’t Diet with an isocaloric breakdown. See the Essential Berardi article for more information.

Sorry, I meant to say “I also don’t think that meltdown training combines well with (I originally said without) a no/low carb diet unless you are adequately using BCAA’s and glutamine during and after training.”

Jason: Thanks for the reply but

Well not entire no carb…I guess it would be more like the “steroid diet” with Surge as my recovery drink but no other carbs.
The main question is whether a “foundation” of nutritional homeostasis should be established first.
My thoughts are that I need to start from “somewhere” in order to lower my kcals and achieve lipolysis. Is this correct? How long does it take our bodies to become accustomed to a certain influx of kcals?

It would be my theory that if I just start with a low kcal nutritional plan that my body will have that become something like it’s “set point” and to lose subcutaneous fat I would have to go even lower!
If I start at 1600’ish I would literally end up starving myself which is what we’re trying to avoid doing anymore.
I hope this sort of clarifies it.

I understand what you are saying, but I don’t think that the set point theory is really valid unless you eat at the point for a long time. I would start with the calculations from Berardi’s Massive Eating part 2 article to see approximately what your caloric needs are (I think it is a good idea to at least see an approximate figure that includes your exercise, even if you won’t be using it). Then figure out what your caloric needs would be based on the Don’t Diet calculations (see Essential Berardi article for link). Start out your cutting cycel at the Don’t Diet calorie recommendations. Monitor your body composition and adjust calories appropriately. IMO, if you are not monitoring body composition during a cutting cycle, you run the risk of a lot of muscle loss by undereating or a lack of fat loss by overeating. If you are not losing body fat fast enough, try cutting out another 250 calories. If you lose too much muscle, add another 250. You can go ahead and eat a low carb diet, but make sure you take in enough BCAAs and glutamine during exercise and use Surge right after. Or you could take 3 scoops of surge. 1 scoop before, 1 scoop during and 1 scoop after. Just some thoughts. Good luck to both you and your wife.

Ditto with respect to what Jason said. Learn how to “eat” before you get lost in tweaking your diet for any particular goal. Given your experience level, I would avoid any type of supplementation or specialized diet (I’m not talking protein or any other basic dietary sup here) and “get to know yourselves” on a clean, sustainable diet. Something like JB’s Massive eating or Don’t Diet are decent places to start. Once each of you, and each of you will be different, figure out what maintenance calories are, then you can adjust for any particular goal. When it comes to diet, you have to start at the beginning so you understand the system (your) before you can adjust effectively.

DDT & Jason
Thank you!
As far as answering the question you guys went above and beyond giving me recommendations I hadn’t thought of. As far as experience, well lifting weights correctly and following productive routines has never been a problem. Out of my 245lbs, 194 is LBM, albeit completely saturated in fat.

What I definitely am lacking experience in is diet and how my body responds to it. Even though they were suggestions I will go ahead and follow the kcal guidelines for the “Don’t Diet” as a start. I kept a journal of my training, nutrition & comments this week and it really helped to stay on target. I once tried being accountable to a friend and he didn’t understand what the fuss was about. I guess I should ask him when he joined NAAFA :slight_smile:

Anyhow thank you guys very much and if it’s cool, I will post my progress.

Keep those training and food journals up to date and you will experience success. I would also suggest learning how to monitor your body composition. An article on this topic may be coming out soon. If you are interested in this topic, I can provide more information. Good luck and please do keep us posted on your progress. Hearing how things worked for other people benefits us all on the forum.

I’m looking at buying a Tanita brand fat monitor scale. Just researching which one would be good for the money. I found the old article about “stuff we like” and they recommend the 612 Model.

Guido, Both you and your wife will undergoe tremendous psychological changes when embarking on a “Melt Down” program. Pick a diet style and stay with it or else you will end up in a happy hatch somewhere. Once apon a time I was so big, I would go to the beach and get a sunburn and harpoon wounds.
I took over 5 years of working out and trying almost every type of diet to get pretty good physique. I like the Labrada concept of eating 60% protein, 30%complex carbs and 10% Good fat.(There are tons of treads regarding good fat. I still do 4 to 6 hours of Cardio per week when I am in a cutting phase. I am currently cutting the last of my body fat to get into a lower weight class for a powerlifting event. If you want to change bad enough, you can never give up! Peace

Get the Tanita TBF-551 model. It has four user memory spots and measure body weight to the nearest 0.2 lbs and %body fat to the nearest 0.1%. Every morning (first thing after going to the bathroom) measure yourself in the nude or wearing minimal clothing. Drop the first measure and take 2-5 other measures until you see the same one at least twice. You will have a lot of day to day variation so don’t worry too much about day to day flux. Once you have 7 measurements (Mon-Sun), average them and that will become that week’s body composition measurement. Compare weekly averages. DO NOT compare day to day flux or you will go nuts. I guarantee it. Stick with weekly averages and you will have a good experience.

I thought it said in the tips that came with the scale to: measure in early evening and to allow 3 hours after rising and eating a meal

I know what the Tanita instructions say and I know why, but it won’t work as well. First thing in the morning after going to the bathroom is the only time in a bodybuilder’s life where things are fairly consistent from day to day. That is why I suggest that time. I know that I have been using this technique and a few other forum brothers also and each with good success. The goal with body composition measurement is high repeatability from measure to measure (reliability) and that is why I suggest first thing in the morning, every morning.

Thanks guys!
I went out today and bought the 556 model. We have 3 people here so it was just an easier choice. I see what you guys are talking about with the differences. I weighed myself back to back and had 5 different readings. So I will measure myself 5 times a day back to back and take the average. Then I will do this eveyday and get the average for the week.

Thanks for the info. I have a tanita and the readings vary throughout the day. I will try that though.

Good luck guys! I think you will be very happy if you follow my suggestions. Keep me posted and ask me if you have any problems with this method.