T Nation

Nutrition Plan to Get Larger

The time has come! I gonna begin eating a little larger, so that I can add some nice, quality muscle.

For the past year or so I have been at the same weight, fluctuating very little on the scale and only gaining moderate strength gains. It took some time to face fact, but it’s now all so simple. It’s math. Calories in vs. calories out.

My problem has also been the intake level, as I eat very strict and make excellent food choices. While at 180 lbs.(I’m 6’ ft.) I have been eating way to little (even though my feedings were frequent) at around 2300 calories!

Anyways, I did some rough base calculations to start with, and I’m gonna initially bump my calories up to 3500.

I want to keep excessive fat gain as little as possible (doesn’t every one) so I want to make sure my choices are on point. Here’s a diet I put together, using what I had been eating, but just adding more!

http://bounddatabase.bravehost.com/bulk.htm

Please make some suggestions and edits.

As far as training, I’m doing a full body routine MWF and 1 hour of MMA (it’s more technique, not really any conditioning) at 10AM and track (sprint) practice at 5PM for only about 30 minutes (warm-up, stretch, a few sprints and drills, then cool down, pretty brief) on TThS.

As for goals, gaining about 10 lbs. muscle mass (so about 20-25 lbs. on the scale), then losing some fat back down to 175-180 lbs. (I’d like to stay on the leaner side for track/martial arts)

I appreciate it guys.

How lean are you right now? I ask because based on your answer I would have different recommendations.

Ah! I completely forgot up my supplementation. As you can see, I’m using Surge and MD already, and I just ordered Flameout and creatine from the store.

Generally, what time is recommend to take the Flamout?

Should the creatine be taken upon waking, pre and post?

I found a good deal on bulk BCAA powder (it’s still not cheap though), is it worth it while I’m bulking?

[quote]laroyal wrote:
How lean are you right now? I ask because based on your answer I would have different recommendations. [/quote]

Well it’s hard to say because frankly there isn’t a large amount of muscle underneath. I’d like to say I’m anywhere between 11-13% but honestly, it could really be anywhere from 12-16% and I wouldn’t be surprised.

During/Post workout nutrition is slightly off I think. 3 Scoops Surge during is too much regardless of bodyfat level, IMO. Also, why are you taking healthy fats + casein protein post-workout? You want whey and some carbs, depending on how lean you are.

Also, looks like your calories are slowly decreasing as the day goes by. I would recommending adjusting your during/post workout nutrition and taking the remaining calories and spreading them more evenly throughout the day.

Looks good. I don’t understand what it is with egg whites though. Your bulking…eat the whole egg. I would add some Extra Virgin Olive Oil personally, and if your not taking any, add fish oil, which you should include in the log.
Wish I could afford to eat that much meat every day :frowning:

We all want to lean bulk, but don’t be scared of fat gains or you will hinder your progress.

[quote]Seinix wrote:
During/Post workout nutrition is slightly off I think. 3 Scoops Surge during is too much regardless of bodyfat level, IMO. Also, why are you taking healthy fats + casein protein post-workout? You want whey and some carbs, depending on how lean you are.
[/quote]

Really? I from what the label on Surge reads, one serving is 3 level scoops (original flavor). The reason for the shake is: 1. Help reach daily caloric requirement 2. It has whey, casein, some fat and good carbs. Why would this not be good? I’m getting my quick intake from the Surge.

[quote]
Also, looks like your calories are slowly decreasing as the day goes by. I would recommending adjusting your during/post workout nutrition and taking the remaining calories and spreading them more evenly throughout the day.[/quote]

This is because I’m trying to get my biggest meals immediately in the morning and post workout, and smaller subsequent meals.

If I were you I would bump your daily protein up to 2.0 grams per lbbw (this is what Charles recommends as well) for the rest of your calories eat as many raw nuts and vegtables as you can stomach. Always eat your protein first at your meals.

Check your HCL levels, if you are not producing adequate HCL in the gut all the supplements and food in the world won’t help. For fish oils I would get a good quality one like flame out or Poliquin’s epa/dha 780 and take 20grams a day in divided doses. Workout nutrition I would use Beverly Nutrition’s uplift before with 7grams eaa’s 40grams bcaa’s during and post Poliquin or Isopure Whey (60grams) 20grams Glutamine, and build to 20grams glycine (start really low though e.g. 5-6grams).

Every 5th day ADD a cheat meal at the end of the day. Get your protein in first with that meal and then eat whatever you want until your ass leaves the seat.

[quote]Droogan Leader wrote:
Seinix wrote:
During/Post workout nutrition is slightly off I think. 3 Scoops Surge during is too much regardless of bodyfat level, IMO. Also, why are you taking healthy fats + casein protein post-workout? You want whey and some carbs, depending on how lean you are.

Really? I from what the label on Surge reads, one serving is 3 level scoops (original flavor). The reason for the shake is: 1. Help reach daily caloric requirement 2. It has whey, casein, some fat and good carbs. Why would this not be good? I’m getting my quick intake from the Surge.

Also, looks like your calories are slowly decreasing as the day goes by. I would recommending adjusting your during/post workout nutrition and taking the remaining calories and spreading them more evenly throughout the day.

This is because I’m trying to get my biggest meals immediately in the morning and post workout, and smaller subsequent meals.[/quote]

I think I misinterpreted your diet - I thought that the PWO shake was taken directly after training. From your recent post it seems like you are drinking Surge during/after workout and then having the PWO shake a little bit later. If this is the case, that’s fine.

Regarding the the calorie distribution - I personally would spread the calories a little more. You can taper it off towards the end of the day, but 245 cal for dinner? Seems a little too much for my taste. [This is sort of a difference in opinion, in the end I don’t think either way will make too much of an impact anyway].

[quote]Seinix wrote:
I think I misinterpreted your diet - I thought that the PWO shake was taken directly after training. From your recent post it seems like you are drinking Surge during/after workout and then having the PWO shake a little bit later. If this is the case, that’s fine.[/quote]

No, I think you had it right. I plan on drinking my Surge during (when I feel energy levels drop) then pounding down that shake about 15-20 minutes after training. Then lunch is about an hour and a half later.

Well, it still fills me up. I’ve been thinking of adding possibly another 1/4 cup of nuts (almonds/walnuts) along with dinner to bump my calories up slightly. I think my sweet spot is going to be 3300-3500 to start, but I’m not really sure.

But I still need some of my other questions answer, like is this gonna be enough calories for the amount of training I’m doing? Also, what about the BCAAs when bulking?

I wouldn’t worry about the calories per meal as such but more of the macronutrient breakdown - make sure your getting at least 40g protein/meal, although I would add some fat in with your dinner.

Its really a case of test and measure whether it is enough calories for you with all your activities. It really depends on too many factors to give an accurate answer. If it isn’t, eat more, its really simple. You should be able to see in 2 weeks whether it is enough or not.

BCAA’s are great for anyone whether they are bulking or cutting. If you have the extra cash, go for it. They won’t make the world of difference and definately aren’t necessary. For me they just help with recovery and once I run out I probably won’t get anymore for some time.

Take Flameout with meals. If taking 4/day, 2 AM and 2PM.

Theres alot of different ways you can take creatine. Generally upon waking, and on a training day, pre and post workout, and if you want before bed.

Just don’t make things to complicated. Like I said, its really test and measure and finding how your body responds.

[quote]Droogan Leader wrote:
Ah! I completely forgot up my supplementation. As you can see, I’m using Surge and MD already, and I just ordered Flameout and creatine from the store.

Generally, what time is recommend to take the Flameout?

Should the creatine be taken upon waking, pre and post?

I found a good deal on bulk BCAA powder (it’s still not cheap though), is it worth it while I’m bulking?[/quote]

While I see it is a good idea to slowly increase your calorires. Keep in mind that with your heigh/weight/activity level you are going to go well beyond 4,000 calories a day to put on some mass. This is; of course, dependent on your metabolism.

As far as the BCAA’s go…they can’t hurt, but with all the calories your going to be taking in; they aren’t 100% needed. I personally; noticed that I needed them more when I go into a caloric deficit.

I didn’t look at your diet (i’m at work, trying ot keep bandwidth use low) but make sure you’re taking in enough carbs. Like with calories…increase them slowly…but I didn’t see any growth until i was taking in over 200g a day.

500 calorie jumps are good to start; then maybe drop to 250 when you get closer to your goal weight.

Good luck man! I was 180 about a month ago…I love being bigger and stronger.

[quote]B rocK wrote:
While I see it is a good idea to slowly increase your calorires. Keep in mind that with your heigh/weight/activity level you are going to go well beyond 4,000 calories a day to put on some mass. This is; of course, dependent on your metabolism.

As far as the BCAA’s go…they can’t hurt, but with all the calories your going to be taking in; they aren’t 100% needed. I personally; noticed that I needed them more when I go into a caloric deficit.

I didn’t look at your diet (i’m at work, trying ot keep bandwidth use low) but make sure you’re taking in enough carbs. Like with calories…increase them slowly…but I didn’t see any growth until i was taking in over 200g a day.

500 calorie jumps are good to start; then maybe drop to 250 when you get closer to your goal weight.

Good luck man! I was 180 about a month ago…I love being bigger and stronger.[/quote]

Thanks man.

It’ll probably take awhile to get up to the calories I need to grow though, since I’ve been chronically eating (and I don’t want to balloon up in a month).

I think my ratio looks somewhere in the lines a 40/40/20 type breakdown. I’m going to have to really make sure that my food choices are right on the money too, since I’m not the really THAT lean at 180 lbs.

Im 6’1 180 and I eat 3500 each day. 3000 stopped doin’ it for me 3 weeks ago so I bumped it up. I had some initial fat gain, but now the muscle is staring to catch up. Im around 10-11% bf too.

You have to keep an eye on your calories. I personally count mine every day and have been for over a year in a little notepad. You should keep track of your weight so if you don’t gain any weight in 2 or 3 weeks, you can up the cals 500 or so.

Alright guys, I’m still trying to figure out how I can get the optimum workout nutrition by focusing on my during, post-workout and lunch (post-post-workout) nutrition. You guys can see what I have scheduled in above but I’ll write it down for the lazies:

I’ll start with the breakfast I listed which I eat at 8AM. I like it, it’s fills me up just the right amount, and it’s actually my favorite meal. It’s very energizing.

I head to the training center for either my MMA or weight training at 10AM. I respond well to ample amounts of caffeine, so I usually get a plain, black 12 oz. coffee before I drive over there.

During my weights routine, I feel my energy levels drop after I have finished 3 of my compounds (leaving 1 more compound, and two single joints exercises left). I was eating an apple before I invested in Surge. Should I pound my Surge here or after?

After I finish training around 11:30, I plan to get in some more liquid calories about 20 minutes after via a post-workout drink which contains:

1 large banana
2 scoops Metabolic Drive
2 tbsp. omega-3 organic peanut butter
2 cups of skim milk (should I go with 2%)

Then my post-post-workout (at around 12:45 or 1PM, right before I head to class around 1:30) is:

8 oz. skinless chicken breast tenders
1 cup organic brown
1 cup salad

Seinex and I discuessed it a little bit above, but I never nailed anything down.

Any advice on the PWO guys?