T Nation

Nutrition Ideas


#1

Hey guys, i'm looking for your ideas on my nutrition planning...this is basically what I do:

On training days, i'll be taking in between 3000 and 3200 calories. 3200 is for leg & lower back days, because they are generally more metabolically taxing. Here's the macro breakdown for the 3100kcal day:

P: ~300g = 39%
C: ~245g = 32%
F: ~100g = 29%

and for the 3000kcal day:

P: ~300g = 40%
C: ~225g = 30%
F: ~100g = 30%

I am using Fitday PC, so I generally fall within 1% error. I basically just add in an extra portion of carbs for leg & deadlift days...This is where things get sort of complicated and I would appreciate any ideas you guys have got...I'm basically doing a mixture of many dieting techniques all together (zig-zag method, anabolic diet re-feeds, low-carb etc). On off days, I drop calories to BMR, and any activity done during the day is just a bonus. The most days off i'll ever take in a row is 2, so starvation shouldn't be an issue over that time period. I'm attempting a clean bulk so I use these days to shed some weight, and then spike the calories back up on training days to build mass. Here's the breakdown for a general off-day @2000kcal:

P: ~250g = 50%
C: ~100g = 20%
F: ~80g = 36%

I work in an office, and I sit for most of the day, so I don't feel that I need many carbohydrates for fuel unless i'm working out later in the evening. Also, I'm 19 years old, 191 lbs. I've been doin this since I was 16 but i'm just now starting to over-analyze everything. I a think that's why my gains have slowed...i'm thinkin about it all too much. Anyways, what do you guys think? Where do I have room for improvement? I can post screenshots of Fitday intake if needed.


#2

Generally, as the carbs go up, protein needs go down. With more carbs, you get more insulin floating around, which means protein is processed more effectively. So, I’d probably flop the protein on your workout days and off days.

Also, it seems you average about 2600 calories a day - at 191 pounds and 19 years of age, that seems too low, like below maintenance low. I’d recommend upping the carbs on your training days, or maybe even turning one or two training days into a very high carb / lower fat day.


#3

telling me protein needs to drop a bit is good news. Its definitely an expensive way of life hahaha…but I wouldn’t say that an average intake is really applicable here…My calories are lower only on days that I don’t really have any energy output other than RMR and TEE…

I use these days to shed fat mass, and I use the high calories days to hopefully keep my metabolism running high, and to fuel muscle growth. I know you have to be in excess of energy for this to occur.

So basically, my goal on off days is to lose fat mass through calorie restriction (and inevitably a little muscle) and then on training days, im looking to gain lean mass (and a little fat comes along as well). It’s my attempt at bulking, while staying as lean as possible.

But challer, I definitely agree with the increased protein uptake on higher carb days…i had never thought of that before though…how big of a factor do you expect it to be? cut down to 250-260g? less?


#4

yeah, and what really makes you think 200 extra calories will make that big of a difference on leg day as opposed to 3,000? Try 4,000 on leg day and you’ll see some big improvements.


#5

Thanks for your replies so far guys, I appreciate the input & help…draper, I agree with you that 4000 would pack on muscle pretty quick, but i’m thinking i’d also be susceptible to packin lots of fat at the level as well…unfortunately, this summer, i landed myself a desk job, so the only activity i get is walking to and from transit, and the gym…what do you think?

Also, i should have mentioned this earlier, but i do 10 mins cardio warmup on leg days, whereas on other training days, i do 10mins pre and 20post…so the extra 100kcal on leg days is in addition to no cardio post-workout…should be roughly in excess of 350kcal over the other training days (i burn around 250kcal in 20 mins on cardio)…What do you think?


#6

well…the thing is, although you get a “rough” estimate of calories burned on a machine, it really isn’t as accurate as you think. I mean, how can it be? Everything is so individual. There is no measure of anything besides what the computer knows to measure. They don’t know how much you ate that day, what you ate, if you’re tired, if you’re t is high, or t is low, etc. So beyond that, no, I don’t think consuming 4,000 calories on leg day will make you gain fat, as long as you’re busting your ass. Because I’m telling you, only 200 calories more won’t make that much of a difference. PM me if you have any more questions.


#7

That is very similar to what I do. Search for the Carb Cycling Codex article should give some good advice. Also a tip from Berardi would be to make sure when your carbs go up your fats go down. 245 grams of carbs isn’t really a that many for a high carb training day. I would drop your fat down alot on those days and replace the extra calories with carbs. You’ll probly notice a great fullness in your muscles and better performance in the gym. Also if you add up your calories per week you can tell if the overall effect is above or below maintenance.


#8

Hey dave, thanks for the input man that’s great advice…im gonna check out that article. i always try to get a good amount of fats in each day cause i know they’re important in synthesizing key hormones but i guess cutting them down on higher carb days couldn’t hurt.


#9

No problem man, On a high carb day you have a huge insulin response and you don’t want that insulin storing the fat you eat


#10

For a 140 pound teenager, yea I know…, how much grams of carbohydrates, and a general ratio of simple to complex carbs I should consume on pretty hard training days. These days include the deadlift and squat, of course a lot of effort, and of course enough carbs to promote recovery and to workout the next day.
As a side note, just so you guys won’t bag on me. I have gained some nice amount of weight, and not by accident. More a eating spree of carbs, proteins and fats.
Just trying to assess more information from you guys so I can be better informed.
Thanks.


#11

[quote]deadman123 wrote:
For a 140 pound teenager, yea I know…, how much grams of carbohydrates, and a general ratio of simple to complex carbs I should consume on pretty hard training days. These days include the deadlift and squat, of course a lot of effort, and of course enough carbs to promote recovery and to workout the next day.
As a side note, just so you guys won’t bag on me. I have gained some nice amount of weight, and not by accident. More a eating spree of carbs, proteins and fats.
Just trying to assess more information from you guys so I can be better informed.
Thanks.[/quote]

Try this eating plan: http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_diet_mass/the_skinny_bastard_diet