T Nation

nutrition blows

just to confirm what was said about the importance of the workout. the workout is king.

today I visited Tel Aviv’s o-lifting club. it’s a dump. all the kids there are russian immigrants. some dont have a home so they sleep there. they work in the supermarket and then come straight to train. this kid didnt eat since 8AM and at about 18:30 after 2 and a half hours of a workout cleaned and jerked 170 at 85K and he’s not 18 yet. after which they went to their post workout meal of cake and chestnuts. I was looking about them thinking P+F pre workout, surge after… that blows. I need to lift some weight with strong guys. so I joined the club and will start this sunday.

they are strong. no nutrition. nutrition comes second.

S-man

Tell that to all the fat people in the gym who train hard but don’t pay attention to their diets. Or those skinny guys who bust their asses in the gym but eat 30 grams of protein a day and never make progress. Not everyone can train hard enough to overcome a poor diet. And since we know about what kind of nutrition we need for either mass building or fat loss, why disregard it? Those poor kids you mentioned wouldn’t if they had 1) the knowledge and 2) the available nutrition.

Glute, these kids you’re talking about, they’re in a weight lifting club for a reason: they are good at it and they have the passion and the potential. Gifted kids with drive make a huge difference. Hormonal differences at that age count for a lot, plus it’s a lot of CNS work. That’s much different than bodybuilding. What are your goals? If you intend to bodybuild, not eating or relying on cake and chestnuts isn’t going to be your best bet.

Congrats on joining the club, though. Those kids will certainly motivate you.

For lifting heavy weights, yes, nutrition comes second. For changing body composition, nutrition comes first.

I’m glad you’ve found a good place to life.

No shit, they really work in grocery stores? I’ve met a lot of Russians that work in our grocery stores over here.

I completely agree with Jared.

Still need a fancy 75 day “insert name of body part here”? or a mystical magic split with timed everything figured with a % of pi x your max with 5.25-4.15-.75.rep cadence?
Oly lifts are king. mix of technique, art, strength, determination, focus, etc.

I eat good…
and cant clean 100K. (I clean 95K, after learning my form from a book)

they are not all kids, it was just an example guy cause he weighs like me… those guys in this club where terrific. they all scream at each other, hit each other, and go for reps with 250K deadlifts AFTER 2 and a half ours of O-lifts. they are sick. I want to be strong. if I will be strong, mass will be easy. everything will be easy.

talking about mass - you should see the legs and back on them. that is fucked up.

S-man

Dont’ give Weider any ideas for a “new” postwork out supplement uncovered in Russia-- The Chestnut Cake Stack

Amen.

Hey, Spanky.
Why dont you tell the guys about the yearly cycles those guys are using!
D-bol is just 20$ a month here, at 3 pops a day. Their diet may be deficient in various nutrients, but full of vitamin S.
All the money from the shitty jobs goes directly to the S-dealer.
Besides that, some have decent technique, but you should see the training programs and periodization they are using… Giveme a break. 4 hours workouts, no GPP, no SPP, no variation, no planning of periodization and training blocks, etc… They are impresive in Israely standarts, but NO ONE as of today can even dream of reaching the worlds, or making an international name of himself.
Dont get me wrong, if you need to learn how to OL, you’ve done the right thing.
But, dont be stupid by neglecting what you’ve learned, because you got motivated by their situation.
I’m not trying to dis’ you, as you can believe me, I’ve been 4 times to Brasil and slept and trained in the worst dumps, seeing incredible talents making the imposible with zero conditions. I, too, was so fascinated by them, I wanted to do it the hard way too. Thats a mistake. You wouldnt want to be one of those kids. And, if you want to take yourself to the next level, learn the usefull stuff (Motivation, technique), but disregard the mistakes. (Roid-use, un-scientific training, nutrition, periodization, etc, etc…)

…Shouting at each other? must be a roid rage!

Age has everything to do with this. I train younger athletes (18-21) as a hobbie and offer advice from time to time. These kids can eat anything they want and still grow! You got it all wrong Spanky. Diet comes first! “What happens if you don’t eat?” In the great wisdom of just about everyone who pays attention to the question- “You die.”

Yeah. their training programs suck compared to modern periodization. but its way better then anyone else here, way better then the fag gym I trained at. as other people put it “you get stronger by osomosis” - just training with other strong people.

who cares how they train? I only care for the why. FINALY i met someone who doesnt train for looks only.

and those two guys that trained here today are not users. this I can tell you. I can spot users VERY easily. and they where shouting encouragements. dont degrade anything good man. Im not naive yet.

you know something else? tw guys started training at my old gym. mr Israel at bodybuilding, Huge fucker at least 250, Im much stronger then him at 180 its ridicoulus, and former Israely soccer star who wants a comeback, who did assisted sets of bench presses for 15 reps and pressdowns. so whos better?

you know what? maybe some of those olympic guys are users. who cares? are they commited to lifting? hell yeah. that devotion is contageous. thats all I need.

S-man.

The thread title would make a good t-shirt slogan, for the gamut of strength enthusiasts. So many good applications for that shirt.

RS, there are people there that are 30 something and 40 something.

you missed my point guys. ofcourse its better to train good and eat good, but the training environment and resulted intensity counts a lot more.

I was so amazed to see strong, big guys who dont give a fudge (and dont know shit) about nutrition, still manage to train 2-3 hours, 6 times a week, and progress! ofcourse I thought “imagine what they’ll do with proper nutrition and funding” but the point is, training comes first.

Just wanted to share my experience, not remove JB and LL from their respectable jobs… :slight_smile:

S-man

Check the diets of some of the best Oly lifters in the world and look at how many hours a week they train. Most people here would have a heart attack. 15 hours of training and for some of them, diet is not even considered.

CGB,

If they are the best OL in the world than that means they are also extremely gifted. Arnold used to use a crazy amount of sets. How many of us here would follow what he did? Not many. Now his determination is something we can learn from.

Join the club GS. I asked Louie about nutrition one time as a joke, he said’ “Our guys eat good.” Of couirse nutrtion is important, but the attitude and effort means more.
Get strong and you shall see more muscles. Seriously folks, look at the old time olympic lifters. Guys like Grimek, yes he o lifted. Tommy Kono, etc. These men were big and strong. They were not nutrition weenies. Changing your body comp is not hard. I’ve done it many a times when cutting 10-20 lbs for a meet to enter a certain weight class. I also was stronger on meet day than eight weeks out drug free all the time. I just accepted strength early and stopped being a fag. It gets a lot easier after that.
Eat well and clean, but don’t obsess. Nutrition is not the answer its fuel, pure and simple. The frame work and engine size makes you run harder and faster,. Yes, the engine will burn more efficiently on high test, but you need to build a big engine to make the most of it.

Spank, I dont want to argue, but those guys are users, or at least ex-users.
I know it first hand, from you know who, so yes, you are naive. Ask around.
I dont like the other side also, just as you. But if that is what you want, training with no reason behind it, pure instinctive shit, eating shit, taking shit, with no thought or planning, just pure blood and guts, then I guess I thought you were someone else…
I like to plan and understand the whys. Then give it all I have. (I’ve done them all, from multiple sets of 400M to 20 rep breathing squats, so yes, training intensely is something I’m familiar with)
I need the motivation, but I just as need the understanding.
“Failing to plan is planning to fail”.
Have fun.

I’ll buy irondoc a lap dance for his last post.

“They’re gifted.” Screw that. I understand that there are truly gifted athletes running around, but gym fulls of them? Please. Pretty soon you’ll start noticing that everybody who lifts heavier than you, even by formula, is “gifted”. Most strength athletes are not “gifted”, as most of us would be making a lot more money in different sports if we were. Most of us come to the iron game because it’s a way to overcome our “limitations”.

And who gives a damn if they are “gifted”? Does that mean they work any less hard than the rest of us? Does that give us any reason not to lay our balls on the line every time we walk into a gym?

This post was honestly not aimed at anyone in particular, but at all of us for every time we try to offer an excuse for someone else’s performance being better than ours other than “I didn’t work hard enough.” I’ve put limitations on myself in the past, and I have suffered for it. No longer.

I would just like to say that I was talking about the best Olympic lifters in the world being gifted. Sure they work their ass off to be where they are, but we can’t argue that they aren’t gifted.