T Nation


Does anyone given any credibility to people who say nutrasweet and products like it are unsafe? I always thought they were crazy but now i’m having second thoughts about whether it is completely safe.

Why are you having second thoughts about the safety? There was something on here a few months ago. The poster who brought the issue up was totally flamed for it and most of the posters thought it was perfectly safe and nothing to worry about. I personally don’t use “diet” products because of these chemical sweeteners. I’d rather have a bit of sugar now and then, than a chemical. But, that’s just me. Why are you questioning these products now?

Nutrisweet is outdated anyway. Sucralose rules.

except for stevia (natural product) all others are neurotoxins. Your best bet is raw honey, but if you choose to use artificial sweeteners you should know what you’re dealing with.

There is NO research to prove that it is unsafe; however, there is plenty of research to prove otherwise.

According to Doug Kalman, stevia adversely affects testosterone. Artificial sweetners are safe. Most have been in use 30-40 years with no adverse health links found. Personally, I really like the new sucralose which is made out of real sugar and tastes like sugar but your body cann’t digest/absorb it.

Can you give me some examples of sucralose sweetners? Thanks.

Splenda is a sucralose sweetener.

Well lets see…saccharin (sweet n low) has been found to cause cancer. Aspartame (nutrasweet) is responsible for more complaints to the FDA then all other substances combined…and Splenda (sucralose) is just so new there’s really not a whole lot of info. about it.

Chances are if you’re a reasonably healthy normal person without any weird tendencies or ailments to begin with you would never even notice any adverse effects articifical substances such as these could have on you. However, there have been plenty of people who have been effected.

I use Splenda which first marketed sucralose. I buy Splenda at Walmart cheap. (It has to be a Walmart superstore with the full grocery dept). I currently buy all my protein powders at Protein Factory (Sorry Biotest) and Protein Factory will sweeten your powders with sucralose upon request at no additional charge. Sometimes I will mix sucralose with other artificial sweetners to really satisfy my sweet tooth.

Had to comment on the saccharin - saccharin has been around for at least 40 years. The FDA use to make saccharin products carry a warning label “may cause cancer” because of 1 study years ago where rats got bladder cancer after given daily doses equivelant to 200 cans of diet soda a day. (give me a break - even natural foods would probably cause cancer at 200 servings a day!). Anyway, the FDA has since dropped the warning label after 40+ years of use and not 1 single health related issue tied to saccharin. Personally, I can atest to the safety of nutrasweet as I am a diet coke junkie and have drank 8-10 cans of diet coke a day for the last 12+ years and eat additional nutrasweet/saccharin in other foods in addition to the 10 cans of soda every day and have experienced absolutely no ill effects. In fact, at 45yo, I’m in the best health of my life. I don’t necessarily advocate that much diet soda for every one but it’s my only vice. If artificial sweetners were so bad, I’m sure I’d have experienced some type of ill effect after 12+ years of heavy artificial sweetner use. We’re exposed to a lot worse things every day and our bodies deal with it. Excessive sugar intake has more proven and documented long term health consequences than artificial sweetners. (Just look at the epidemic of obesity and type 2 diabetes rampant in the current generation of kids).

Just because complaints are made to the FDA doesn’t make those complaints valid. Let me give you a direct quote from the FDA itself:

"There is no scientific credibility to any of these complaints."

I think that pretty much says it all right there, but here is another one:

"Aspartame is one of the most thoroughly tested and studied food additives we have ever approved...the safety of aspartame is clear cut."

The FDA has reviewed over 100 scientific studies about aspartame and has not found any that prove aspartame causes adverse reactions in healthy people.

I'm a little dissapointed that you (especially you, I have a great deal of respect for you) would post these kinds of comments without doing the research.

Okay, I just gotta call you on something. In the CLA thread, you say pretty much that you don’t give any of the “scientific” studies any merit, but in this thread you dis the complaints to the FDA because they don’t have any “scientific credibility.” Is it just me, or does that sound like a contradiction?

Underdoglady, nothing could be further from the truth. You, and others to I might add, are perpetuating completely FALSE rumors that have not a bit of basis in reality. If somebody can show me ONE bit of reliable evidence instead of, “Well I heard that they’re bad,” I might change my tune. Until that time, I’ll continue to chug my Diet Cokes.

Joel,Joel, Joel…I try never to make any type of negative personal comments on any of the forums . In fact I was a bit dissapointed in how this forums had been going lately and decided to try and wean myself away from it. I came back to check it out though and I notice you are in at almost every post. Now some of the advice you’ve given is sound and good. i will not take away that you have a pretty good training mind and that you made some good improvements in your contest. However I also noticed that you also have a huge air of cockiness in some of your posts(i.e. Brider’s post) Now you insulted(almost an attack…) Kelly, who I have great respect for. i also like to consider him a friend. What I’m getting at Joel is that you aren’t the only person with good advice hear and it would be great if you’d like to continue to help. If you keep on in the manner that you are though, No one will respect you at all and they couldn’t care less if it was the BFL, Arnold, Highland games,Olympics,Olympia or whatever other fucking contest that you won…just the truth man…Mike

To Heb: Sounds like the adverse affect in your case is addiction. I did see a TV program many, many years ago about the addictive effect of these artificial sweeteners. And no–the addiction was not to the caffeine, but to the sweetener. Do you not see the problem with consuming that much diet soda each and every day, plus more foods with these sweeteners? And, just to play devil’s advocate for a minute–when somebody contracts cancer, does the medical world actually conduct tests on that person to eliminate the possible causes? Do they become a study in research, in effect trying to determine what it was in their life that MAY have caused the cancer? No. So, how does anybody really know that these agents (and lots of other things) are not collectively causing the increase of this horrible illness? I 'm not saying here that the sweetners are responsible, but I have no doubt that the collective use of all these chemicals must have some effect on our bodies.

I knew somebody would try to implicate an “addiction” to nutrasweet from my post as that is another nutrasweet myth (addiction) that’s been going around for years. But no, the addiction is not to nutrasweet, but to caffeine. Diet coke is the medium for my drug of choice - caffeine. If it was an addiction to nutrasweet, then I would crave any diet soda, but that’s not at all the case. (In fact, I dispise caffeine free diet coke and cann’t stand to drink it). It’s just I’ve choosen diet coke as the means to get my caffeine doses throughout the day. And people do get addicted to caffeine and get withdrawal (headaches, etc) when not getting their daily dose. The reason I drink diet coke instead of fat coke and use artificial sweetners is that having been fat once (50+ lbs over weight), I no longer consume empty calories (sweets, sugars, etc) to keep my BF at <10%. I always had a sweet tooth and consumed large quantities of sweets and other empty calories and that is what gave me poor health. After giving up the sweets, losing 55 lbs of fat, gaining 30+ lbs of muscle, I no longer have the health problems that I had when eating all the crap. But I still have the sweet tooth that I’ve always had and now satisfy it with artificial sweetners instead of empty calories. All the sugar and empty calories is what was killing me and it is the reason that we have an epidemic of obesity and type 2 diabetes among the current generation of kids. I’m thankful for artificial sweetners so I can still enjoy the taste of sweets with out all the unnecessary empty calories. It leaves more room in my daily calorie count for extra protein and good fats.

The reason for the warning label on saccharine was due to problems in the animal control studies. When administering saccharine to lab rats, it was found that, when the solution reach a certain saturation level, the saccharine fell out of solution as crystals in the rat bladder, preciptiating bladder tumors. It turns out the amount needed would be very high to preciptitate this in a human, along the lines of the previously posted 200 cans of soda, or a 50 gallon drum of iced tea.Nothing to worry about.

How in the world did I insult/personally attack Kelly? I said that I was dissapointed that Kelly (especially Kelly, because he has tons of great info to offer and is normally right on) would post the “off base” thoughts of the media without checking things out first. I stated right on my post “I have a great deal of respect for you.”

I basically said that same thing as Heb, but in regards to aspartame instead of saccharin. Why is no one flaming the hell out of Heb?

Brider- My apologies about the CLA thread; however, I don't think anyone was really getting what I was trying to say. Regardless, I apologize.

As far as me posting on just about every thread; I only posts to threads in which I can help in some way (offer some knowledge, views, etc.) I do not respond to anything I am not informed about. If I don't know the answer, I don't know the answer.

I have never personally flamed anyone, try to remain as professional as possible, and give credit where credit is due. I know I'm not the only one who gives good advice here; I have stated on many occasions that I learn from the views of many posters (Jason Norcross, Eric, Heb, Kelley Bagget, etc.)

"If you keep on in the manner that you are though, No one will respect you at all..."

Well, since you stated that I post to just about every thread, maybe you could give me more than one example in which my posts had "a huge air of cockiness" or when my advice was not sound (since you state that only some of my advice is sound). Surely, you have hundreds and hundreds of posts to choose from, but I doubt you will find many. If you didn't think that my advice was "sound" then you could have debated with me on that particular issue. I'm always open to a healthy debate, because like I said before, I don't post if I havn't done the reasearch...you can believe that I'll have plenty of sources to back up my advice. I've stated time and time again, all I want to do is help individuals...that is why I post here.

You know what really bothers me? The fact that I just spent a considerable amount of time composing this response and I helped absolutely no one...that's the sad part...and the very reason why you may not see my name as much on the forum.

Joel, i’m not into childish debate. To tell you the truth arguing over a forum is not my thing. It accomplishes nothing .I have a temper, I usually control it, but the way you came across in that post got to me and I was pissed. Don’t put it on me that you aren’t going to post as often because of incidents as such. I did not wish to accomplish that at all. Like i said you ahve some valuable info. I enjoy some of your posts. I said some valuable info because no one has info that pertains to a certain individual at any point in time . Take it as a complement that some respect for your thoughts and views are shown. The cockiness issue just comes from a few posts where I saw where you felt your answer was a definitive answer without other option. It really is no big deal though. Continue your contributions, like I said, some I enjoy(I thought your 5x5 program was a good one, alot like Pavel’s work). Just respect that their are other dogs out there as well. Good luck with your training