T Nation

Nut Shrinkage

I got a question about nut atrophy rates, haha! Now I understand this question isn’t really too specific, but let’s just assume we take the average male with properly functioning nads, and give him around 500mg - 1000mg of testosterone a week, forever / with nothing else like HcG or whatever. Now, at what rate and to what degree will the nuts usually shrink?

Will they atrophy at an even pace, or will they shrink “more” early during testosterone use and shrink more slowly as use continues? Or will they atrophy at a low rate at first, then exponentially start atrophying at a high rate at a certain point? It would depend on how fast the drug gets into your system too and all but, this is just kind of a broad question…

Anybody experiences?

It really varies and depends. Some get it more than others. I would say its dosage dependent though in terms of the speed of the shutdown.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I would say its dosage dependent though in terms of the speed of the shutdown. [/quote]

How about in terms of degree of shutdown? It’s my understanding that shutdown is shutdown no matter dose, and will be the same for 200mg or 2000 mg. So is degree of shutdown a non-issue, and speed of shutdown the reality?

It does not take much. Some on TRT will shut down their HPTA with 100mg test esters per week and have shrinking. Some will have aching balls too. Scrotum will pull up tight like a pre-adolescent boy.

I have seen in research where the intent was to shut down LH production and 200mg test cyp per week were used and blood work showed that shutdown was complete. As for shrinkage, that will be individual, but over time there will be a second phase where the structure of the testes is being destroyed. You can’t re-grow big balls from peas -effectively castrated.

250iu HCG SQ EOD will preserve baseline function of the testes. If you can get HCG, there is no reason at all to shut them down. Too much HCG will cause harm as the LH receptors can be down-regulated. Some argue to use HCG all through a cycle instead of only for PCT.

[quote]KSman wrote:
It does not take much. Some on TRT will shut down their HPTA with 100mg test esters per week and have shrinking. Some will have aching balls too. Scrotum will pull up tight like a pre-adolescent boy.

I have seen in research where the intent was to shut down LH production and 200mg test cyp per week were used and blood work showed that shutdown was complete. As for shrinkage, that will be individual, but over time there will be a second phase where the structure of the testes is being destroyed. You can’t re-grow big balls from peas -effectively castrated.

250iu HCG SQ EOD will preserve baseline function of the testes. If you can get HCG, there is no reason at all to shut them down. Too much HCG will cause harm as the LH receptors can be down-regulated. Some argue to use HCG all through a cycle instead of only for PCT.[/quote]

I especially appreciate all your help on these forums KSman, you really know your stuff when it comes to HcG usage and I’ve learned a lot from reading your other posts. Thank you so much!

I do wonder though, is the pulling up of the scrotum always a present symptom of bad shutdown? I’ve been running a twelve week without HcG, planning on just using it PCT (next time I’ll run it throughout however); The boys have atrophied only very slightly, but they still hang loose. No pulling or aching whatsoever. Are those good markers of dangerous shutdown, something everybody experiences, or does everybody experience shutdown symptoms differently?

[quote]Lejes wrote:
I do wonder though, is the pulling up of the scrotum always a present symptom of bad shutdown? I’ve been running a twelve week without HcG, planning on just using it PCT (next time I’ll run it throughout however); The boys have atrophied only very slightly, but they still hang loose. No pulling or aching whatsoever. Are those good markers of dangerous shutdown, something everybody experiences, or does everybody experience shutdown symptoms differently?
[/quote]

I guess its hard to judge the size of the boys. Don’t use a caliper for such things. But when you’re pulled up tight, that is an on-off type of observation. May take time without LH to arrive at that state. My wife at one point was getting upset that ‘her friends’ were going away!

No universal truths… everyone is different… that’s true.

Yeah if your exogenous test intake is greater than your body’s natural endogenous production it will commence with the shut down. Considering 100mg a week is considered normal human production you can see it won’t take much at all to shut’em down

[quote]sapasion wrote:
Yeah if your exogenous test intake is greater than your body’s natural endogenous production it will commence with the shut down. Considering 100mg a week is considered normal human production you can see it won’t take much at all to shut’em down[/quote]

100mg of test esters replaces normal production. Normal production in normal young adult men is considered to be 10mg T per day or 70 mg T per week. After the body absorbs test esters and the ester groups are removed to yield bio-identical T, the yield by weight is around 70%. So 100mg of test esters yields around 70mg of testosterone. -A small distinction.

In my case, 100mg test cyp shut me down completely. Shrinking, up tight and some pain. Only some feel discomfort.

could someone tell me which product to use to get these results? there are so many different choices. i am looking for max shrinkage as well
thanks

I expeirence very little in way of atrophy. But I know I am shut down when I have lethargy, no desire for sex or porn, and get moderate to mild depression and struggle to get through my works outs. Not sure that atrophy should be a marker for “shutdown”, maybe more a side effect.

[quote]KSman wrote:
No universal truths… everyone is different… that’s true.[/quote]

That is definitely true.

I have been on test of one ester or another for the better part of a year, and my boys have never exhibited a noticeable change in size. The only time I have scrotal draw-upage is when it I am cold.

But with that said - I had a vasectomy 5 years ago.

My balls ached so bad on my one and only cycle that I decided to cut it short.

[quote]Future2501 wrote:
My balls ached so bad on my one and only cycle that I decided to cut it short. [/quote]

Some get pain when they shutdown. That happened to me with TRT and HCG fixed that.

[quote]Over40 wrote:
I experience very little in way of atrophy. But I know I am shut down when I have lethargy, no desire for sex or porn, and get moderate to mild depression and struggle to get through my works outs. Not sure that atrophy should be a marker for “shutdown”, maybe more a side effect. [/quote]

Those problems might be from increased E effects and not the lack of LH and testicular activity. But many on TRT report an improvement of mood with HCG, so perhaps LH does directly support mood. The testes also produce more than T and sperm. They also produce pregnenolone. So part of the problem may relate to loss of those other products. HCG does have a CNS action that one can notice when starting on that after shutting down. So it makes sense that LH would have some CNS action.

Your reported problems really sound like the problems that guys have on TRT from elevated E… and AI fixes most of those.