T Nation

Now I'm Old

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
substantial evidence??? please show me some of this substantial evidence. now im talking about men that routineley workout and weightlift, not guys who sit on the couch and do no exercise. last night, i just watched Bernard Hopkis win the light heavyweight title. he is the oldest man in history to win a legitimate world championship. hes 46. is his testosterone levels declining?? if they were, he wouldn’t be able to compete at that high a level. and before someone says hes the exception. id say no, hes the rule, if you workout and take care of yourself.
[/quote]

His test levels have ABSOLUTELY declined from when he was 18 or 19. There’s no doubt about that. Keeping in shape, and even more so, fighting shape, at 46 is a Sisyphean task, and that’s due mostly to test levels dropping.

I am sure his recovery is affected by it, and even BHop, who’s one of the most self-assured, boisterous fighters I’ve ever seen, admits openly that he’s lost a step. He doesn’t win fights in the same way anymore- he’s much more offensive now than he used to be, because he has to be.

I think Bernard Hopkins is playing to the media, when he says hes lost a step or 2. I’m telling you now, i have seen his fights from years ago, when he fought Roy Jones jr. all the way up till now. and im telling you, he looked just as good if not better than then. he beat a a strong dude in Pascal. I’m sorry to say, but you are under the influence of brainwashing. you beleive what your told.

You say well, those pro bodybuilders are on massive amounts of steroids, thats why they are still built at a later age. well, they were doing steroids in their 20s as well, why are they bigger now? hmmmmmm.

Bernard hopkins didn’t change his style cause of dropping skill levels, he did it cause he was sick of losing close decisions. hes lots a few he should have won. plus, so hes more exciting to watch. Stop believing aging is inevitable, its not. but if you think it is, then it will be.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

honestly, no insult intended, but you are a female commenting on male hormones, which I find humorous. there have been many articles writtin about the fact that the “male menapause” is a myth and doesn’t exist. yes, your friend may have lower test levels. just like some people get hit by lightning, does that make it a probable outcome for most men. of course not. i can guarantee, any man that works out, takes the necessary supplements will not experience any loss in test levels.

You are aware, there has never ever been any studies to prove a mans test levels decline. now, im talking on healthy active, weight training men. if your friend does have low test levels, there are tons of very good test increasing supplements that have been proven to work. men are not women, we do not suffer from any sort of menapause. that myth has been shattered. [/quote]

You’re a pretty big cocksucker huh?

Everyone here has been saying what they know, and qualifying it by saying it’s their opinion.

If you want to do this shit, do it on another thread- don’t fuck up roundhead’s thread with this kind of bullshit. Kid’s asking for help. If you don’t have any, move the fuck along.[/quote]

im also giving my personal opinion. and don’t say something here, you wouldn’t say in person. we both know you wouldn’t. so please, save it. Remember this started with some “woman” telling him (a 25 yr old kid) that is test levels are declining. is that the advice you speak of. thats terrible advice.

[quote]kaisermetal wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

You are aware, its easier to build muscle when men are in their 30s and 40s than 20s. if you look at all the top level bodybuilders, most are mid to late 30s. not all of course, but alot are. like i said, aging is a placebo effect. if you beleive something strong enough, your body will make it happen. [/quote]

They are because they spent their time from 18 to mid 30 building all that mass[/quote]

not what im saying. ive seen many guys, that are bigger now, than they were in their 20s. wow, i can’t believe how many people want to think that your done with after a certain age. i feel sorry for you guys. honestly. I’m sure Randy couture and Bernard Hopkins would also take issue with you.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

honestly, no insult intended, but you are a female commenting on male hormones, which I find humorous. there have been many articles writtin about the fact that the “male menapause” is a myth and doesn’t exist. yes, your friend may have lower test levels. just like some people get hit by lightning, does that make it a probable outcome for most men. of course not. i can guarantee, any man that works out, takes the necessary supplements will not experience any loss in test levels.

You are aware, there has never ever been any studies to prove a mans test levels decline. now, im talking on healthy active, weight training men. if your friend does have low test levels, there are tons of very good test increasing supplements that have been proven to work. men are not women, we do not suffer from any sort of menapause. that myth has been shattered. [/quote]

You’re a pretty big cocksucker huh?

Everyone here has been saying what they know, and qualifying it by saying it’s their opinion.

If you want to do this shit, do it on another thread- don’t fuck up roundhead’s thread with this kind of bullshit. Kid’s asking for help. If you don’t have any, move the fuck along.[/quote]

im also giving my personal opinion. and don’t say something here, you wouldn’t say in person. we both know you wouldn’t. so please, save it. Remember this started with some “woman” telling him (a 25 yr old kid) that is test levels are declining. is that the advice you speak of. thats terrible advice. [/quote]

Don’t tell me what the fuck I would say to you in person and what I wouldn’t. So let’s not bullshit each other about you knowing anything about me or how I act.

And secondly, most guys don’t know shit about their test levels and when they decline, and a “woman” (don’t know why the fuck you put that in quotes) is very capable of understanding hormone levels just as adeptly as a man can.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
substantial evidence??? please show me some of this substantial evidence. now im talking about men that routineley workout and weightlift, not guys who sit on the couch and do no exercise. last night, i just watched Bernard Hopkis win the light heavyweight title. he is the oldest man in history to win a legitimate world championship. hes 46. is his testosterone levels declining?? if they were, he wouldn’t be able to compete at that high a level. and before someone says hes the exception. id say no, hes the rule, if you workout and take care of yourself.
[/quote]

His test levels have ABSOLUTELY declined from when he was 18 or 19. There’s no doubt about that. Keeping in shape, and even more so, fighting shape, at 46 is a Sisyphean task, and that’s due mostly to test levels dropping.

I am sure his recovery is affected by it, and even BHop, who’s one of the most self-assured, boisterous fighters I’ve ever seen, admits openly that he’s lost a step. He doesn’t win fights in the same way anymore- he’s much more offensive now than he used to be, because he has to be.

I think Bernard Hopkins is playing to the media, when he says hes lost a step or 2. I’m telling you now, i have seen his fights from years ago, when he fought Roy Jones jr. all the way up till now. and im telling you, he looked just as good if not better than then. he beat a a strong dude in Pascal. I’m sorry to say, but you are under the influence of brainwashing. you beleive what your told.

You say well, those pro bodybuilders are on massive amounts of steroids, thats why they are still built at a later age. well, they were doing steroids in their 20s as well, why are they bigger now? hmmmmmm.

Bernard hopkins didn’t change his style cause of dropping skill levels, he did it cause he was sick of losing close decisions. hes lots a few he should have won. plus, so hes more exciting to watch. Stop believing aging is inevitable, its not. but if you think it is, then it will be. [/quote]

“Most people don’t know shit about boxing. At all. Period.” - Roger Mayweather.

This quote completely applies to you.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:
substantial evidence??? please show me some of this substantial evidence. now im talking about men that routineley workout and weightlift, not guys who sit on the couch and do no exercise. last night, i just watched Bernard Hopkis win the light heavyweight title. he is the oldest man in history to win a legitimate world championship. hes 46. is his testosterone levels declining?? if they were, he wouldn’t be able to compete at that high a level. and before someone says hes the exception. id say no, hes the rule, if you workout and take care of yourself.
[/quote]

His test levels have ABSOLUTELY declined from when he was 18 or 19. There’s no doubt about that. Keeping in shape, and even more so, fighting shape, at 46 is a Sisyphean task, and that’s due mostly to test levels dropping.

I am sure his recovery is affected by it, and even BHop, who’s one of the most self-assured, boisterous fighters I’ve ever seen, admits openly that he’s lost a step. He doesn’t win fights in the same way anymore- he’s much more offensive now than he used to be, because he has to be.

I think Bernard Hopkins is playing to the media, when he says hes lost a step or 2. I’m telling you now, i have seen his fights from years ago, when he fought Roy Jones jr. all the way up till now. and im telling you, he looked just as good if not better than then. he beat a a strong dude in Pascal. I’m sorry to say, but you are under the influence of brainwashing. you beleive what your told.

You say well, those pro bodybuilders are on massive amounts of steroids, thats why they are still built at a later age. well, they were doing steroids in their 20s as well, why are they bigger now? hmmmmmm.

Bernard hopkins didn’t change his style cause of dropping skill levels, he did it cause he was sick of losing close decisions. hes lots a few he should have won. plus, so hes more exciting to watch. Stop believing aging is inevitable, its not. but if you think it is, then it will be. [/quote]

“Most people don’t know shit about boxing. At all. Period.” - Roger Mayweather.

This quote completely applies to you.[/quote]

ummm, i started martial arts at age 9, 3rd degree black belt. I was a kickboxer for over 12 years and also competed in the Golden Gloves. not to mention have been following boxing for many years. I have forgotten more about boxing and fighting sports in general than you will ever know.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

honestly, no insult intended, but you are a female commenting on male hormones, which I find humorous. there have been many articles writtin about the fact that the “male menapause” is a myth and doesn’t exist. yes, your friend may have lower test levels. just like some people get hit by lightning, does that make it a probable outcome for most men. of course not. i can guarantee, any man that works out, takes the necessary supplements will not experience any loss in test levels.

You are aware, there has never ever been any studies to prove a mans test levels decline. now, im talking on healthy active, weight training men. if your friend does have low test levels, there are tons of very good test increasing supplements that have been proven to work. men are not women, we do not suffer from any sort of menapause. that myth has been shattered. [/quote]

You’re a pretty big cocksucker huh?

Everyone here has been saying what they know, and qualifying it by saying it’s their opinion.

If you want to do this shit, do it on another thread- don’t fuck up roundhead’s thread with this kind of bullshit. Kid’s asking for help. If you don’t have any, move the fuck along.[/quote]

im also giving my personal opinion. and don’t say something here, you wouldn’t say in person. we both know you wouldn’t. so please, save it. Remember this started with some “woman” telling him (a 25 yr old kid) that is test levels are declining. is that the advice you speak of. thats terrible advice. [/quote]

Don’t tell me what the fuck I would say to you in person and what I wouldn’t. So let’s not bullshit each other about you knowing anything about me or how I act.

And secondly, most guys don’t know shit about their test levels and when they decline, and a “woman” (don’t know why the fuck you put that in quotes) is very capable of understanding hormone levels just as adeptly as a man can.
[/quote]

thats true. but if your going by athletic performance or strength as an indicator for testosterone decline, then saying that test levels decline is false. with women, there is a noticeable difference when women hit menapause. their voice gets manlike(gets rougher and deeper) they get mustaches, they have numerous symptoms. men simply do not.

If you think telling a young kid at only 25 yrs old, that his test levels are declining is “good advice” you have some learning to do. you, as a man, should also take exception to what this “woman” said. if you knew even the slightest bit about this subject, then you might know what im talking about.

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

honestly, no insult intended, but you are a female commenting on male hormones, which I find humorous. there have been many articles writtin about the fact that the “male menapause” is a myth and doesn’t exist. yes, your friend may have lower test levels. just like some people get hit by lightning, does that make it a probable outcome for most men. of course not. i can guarantee, any man that works out, takes the necessary supplements will not experience any loss in test levels.

You are aware, there has never ever been any studies to prove a mans test levels decline. now, im talking on healthy active, weight training men. if your friend does have low test levels, there are tons of very good test increasing supplements that have been proven to work. men are not women, we do not suffer from any sort of menapause. that myth has been shattered. [/quote]

You’re a pretty big cocksucker huh?

Everyone here has been saying what they know, and qualifying it by saying it’s their opinion.

If you want to do this shit, do it on another thread- don’t fuck up roundhead’s thread with this kind of bullshit. Kid’s asking for help. If you don’t have any, move the fuck along.[/quote]

im also giving my personal opinion. and don’t say something here, you wouldn’t say in person. we both know you wouldn’t. so please, save it. Remember this started with some “woman” telling him (a 25 yr old kid) that is test levels are declining. is that the advice you speak of. thats terrible advice. [/quote]

Don’t tell me what the fuck I would say to you in person and what I wouldn’t. So let’s not bullshit each other about you knowing anything about me or how I act.

And secondly, most guys don’t know shit about their test levels and when they decline, and a “woman” (don’t know why the fuck you put that in quotes) is very capable of understanding hormone levels just as adeptly as a man can.
[/quote]

thats true. but if your going by athletic performance or strength as an indicator for testosterone decline, then saying that test levels decline is false. with women, there is a noticeable difference when women hit menapause. their voice gets manlike(gets rougher and deeper) they get mustaches, they have numerous symptoms. men simply do not.

If you think telling a young kid at only 25 yrs old, that his test levels are declining is “good advice” you have some learning to do. you, as a man, should also take exception to what this “woman” said. if you knew even the slightest bit about this subject, then you might know what im talking about. [/quote]

SHE SAID “MAY BE DECLINING.”

Christ, this is ridiculous. I’m not arguing this anymore. You want to, start another thread and leave this one alone.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]roguevampire wrote:

honestly, no insult intended, but you are a female commenting on male hormones, which I find humorous. there have been many articles writtin about the fact that the “male menapause” is a myth and doesn’t exist. yes, your friend may have lower test levels. just like some people get hit by lightning, does that make it a probable outcome for most men. of course not. i can guarantee, any man that works out, takes the necessary supplements will not experience any loss in test levels.

You are aware, there has never ever been any studies to prove a mans test levels decline. now, im talking on healthy active, weight training men. if your friend does have low test levels, there are tons of very good test increasing supplements that have been proven to work. men are not women, we do not suffer from any sort of menapause. that myth has been shattered. [/quote]

You’re a pretty big cocksucker huh?

Everyone here has been saying what they know, and qualifying it by saying it’s their opinion.

If you want to do this shit, do it on another thread- don’t fuck up roundhead’s thread with this kind of bullshit. Kid’s asking for help. If you don’t have any, move the fuck along.[/quote]

im also giving my personal opinion. and don’t say something here, you wouldn’t say in person. we both know you wouldn’t. so please, save it. Remember this started with some “woman” telling him (a 25 yr old kid) that is test levels are declining. is that the advice you speak of. thats terrible advice. [/quote]

Don’t tell me what the fuck I would say to you in person and what I wouldn’t. So let’s not bullshit each other about you knowing anything about me or how I act.

And secondly, most guys don’t know shit about their test levels and when they decline, and a “woman” (don’t know why the fuck you put that in quotes) is very capable of understanding hormone levels just as adeptly as a man can.
[/quote]

thats true. but if your going by athletic performance or strength as an indicator for testosterone decline, then saying that test levels decline is false. with women, there is a noticeable difference when women hit menapause. their voice gets manlike(gets rougher and deeper) they get mustaches, they have numerous symptoms. men simply do not.

If you think telling a young kid at only 25 yrs old, that his test levels are declining is “good advice” you have some learning to do. you, as a man, should also take exception to what this “woman” said. if you knew even the slightest bit about this subject, then you might know what im talking about. [/quote]

SHE SAID “MAY BE DECLINING.”

Christ, this is ridiculous. I’m not arguing this anymore. You want to, start another thread and leave this one alone.[/quote]

this is why i use the ignore function.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Roguevagina put “woman” in quotes like I’m a drag queen. I think that is cute!

And golly, you’re right, how could my tiny girl brain comprehend things like hormones? I’m also not smart enough to comprehend why you have so much to say about menopause when I’m not supposed to speak of testosterone due to my gender. Oh, well…I am humbled. You are rugged and masculine.

As far as Irish saying things to people’s faces, I gotta tell you, I kind of think he would.

Sorry about all this nonsense, Roundhead. About that foam roller - it’s a great idea. Make sure you get one that’s firm.

Some great replies there, much appreciate the help. Whether or not my test levels are doing anything or not I am definitely not taking the knocks as easily as I was five years ago, or even last year.

I’ve got another appointment at the chiro tomorrow, so we’ll see what she has to say about when I can start training again. BJJ is out of the question around here, the cost and class timetables just don’t square with the hours I work. It’s the usual TMA plus boxing, judo, MT and MMA. I’ll phone around and see what holds the most promise. I think Irish may be onto something with a TMA + combat sport combo. Local amateur boxing gyms around here only seem to train once a week anyway.

Thanks for all your advice, its been taken on board.

Right, if no one objects I’ll use this thread to document my getting back in the game and hope I pick up some feedback as I go.

Yesterday chiro said I am healing up well, did the loudest readjustment yet, drawing a crazy loud crack running right up my spine. Feel great today. She reckons I’ll be able to start training again next week.

I’ve been on the phone to a few coaches in the area. I thought I was on to something when I was talking to a guy who teaches Shotokan, who was telling me about the full contact training and competing he did in the 80s, but it turns out his licence and insurance won’t cover the club for full contact, so its light-continuous, which isn’t for me. A real shame, the vids he showed me of old style training were immense. I might put them up on here at some point.

I have spoken to a boxing coach who has told me he has loads of experience of working with guys with injuries and also with training adults new to the sport to compete in amateur competition. Couldn’t believe how cheap training is at this gym, guess that’s what comes from being subsidised as an olympic sport. Reckon this could be a winner.

Also checked out a couple of judo clubs, but they only train once a week and would probably be murder on the back. Might be a good shout for cross training in the future though. I hear boxing and judo is the quintessential “bouncer” combo.

And now for something completely different. I have been exchanging emails with an aikido instructor. I would never normally consider this, but the instructor seems a really interesting guy- he was awarded his fifth dan by Morihiro Saito Sensei after studying in Japan for two years, then went on to serve in the Parachute Regiment (proper hard bastards if you don’t know them). While in the regiment he taught ?arrest and restraint? techniques prior to service in Northern Ireland. So it all sounds a bit different to regular aikido. He has told me his training is “aikido for self defence done right” and involves resisting in training as well as strength and conditioning. So I’m going to check that out and see what’s what.

Ignore button is the shit.

Hey thanks to whomever linked my thread on moblity.

Roundhead welcome back.

You need a plan.
here it be.

1 seek a sports specialist
2 read up on rehab particularly the spine
3 correct
4 build
5 tear shit up.

FWIW I am 39 a recovering super jock- no longer able to compete nor train in wrestling BJJ, Judo etc
cause my neck is no longer healthy- basically I am stable but out of the game.

I was a phys-ed major wanted to be a chiropractor that didn’t work out
english Lit is what that became go figure.

so I took a massage degree instead
and I have allot of time with PT, rehabbed a bunch of shit injuries.

so here we go

seek out a good physio ostiopath chiropractor etc I know in the EU they go by different names
try reaching out to different kinds of athletes maybe you have a gymnastic or ballet school near you.
crossfit , soccer etc all kinds of jocks get hurt maybe some of your horsemen friends have had some good rehab

getting a first hand recommendation is the best way to find someone good.

research
start and end with stuart Mcgill.
he is the best on spine and sports hands down.
then move on to drills that you and your PT can agree with.

thoracic mobility is a good start.
so are any kind of ‘spinal flossing’
hit up the google machine

once you have 1,2,3 moving along
come up with a series of moblity and strength training work
that you can do- and that can fix your shit.
believe me its all fixable.

then tear it up.

a few other random bits.
yoga - amazing.
breathing + posture = good shit
pilates, teaches deep breathing and how to active and use
the power of the hips and psoas etc.

Akido is a dojo parlour trick.
that being said its very very solid in the dojo
and is a great form of ukemi etc.

there you have it.

kmcnyc you are the man, thanks a lot.

Nice highjack roguevampire.
You know, when people sign in and write their first posts and suck, I kinda cut them some slack - even if they scream “I’M A CRAZY PERSON!!!” like your vampire-post did.
But now even I must admit that you’re a trollish mischief maker, giving out terrible, uninformed and generally snotty advice.
Just stop.

@ROUNDHEAD
At 25, the male brain has finally matured while your regenerative capabilities will drop and continue to do so. Great combination, isn’t it?
The spine is not to be trifled with. Mobility and good moving patterns trump everything else.
KMC has mapped out your to-do list.
One small thing I’d like to point out: Be aware how you treat your spine when working (I assume you do) and sleeping. Many people are hunched over 10 hours a day and sleep on terrible mattresses.
Perhaps you can adjust something.

So get your 1-2-3 in order and be strong again!
-S.

p.s.
While deads and squats are obviously out, most people who have had some bad discs can still do all kinds of chinups. If your core is strong, you might even add weight.

^^^^^
swartz that is something I glossed over-

and its really important.

posture in life is just as important as in training.

I knew you guys would sort me out, and you haven’t disappointed!

My job is pretty active, so I guess safe lifting is a big issue for me (I think the day I spent herding and loading up deer a couple of weekends ago contributed to this situation, its hard to remember to lift from the knees when a fallow buck is trying to kick your face in). That said I do put in a fair amount of time in front of a computer, so I will bear that in mind too.

The chiro has sorted me out with some sleeping poses. She also works with a guy who does a lot with sporting injuries, so I’m going to talk to him before I get signed off next week. I guess she’ll want to see me on an infrequent basis to make sure I’m doing nothing wrong.

Next week I’ve got a little time on my hands so I’m going to visit a few gyms, talk to a few folks and see what looks like the way forward.

KMCNYC!! Thanks for the heads up on Stuart McGill, I checked him out & put one of his videos up on my blog.

Roundhead,

I am late checking into this thread, so disregard any points that are no longer applicable.

First, this may not apply immediately, but I think it should be said. Miss Parker gave a good suggestion of getting a second opinion. Even if not in this case, whenever you doubt the diagnosis or treatment advice given to you by a healthcare professional seek clarification from that professional and hold it against outside research and second opinions. You need to have trust in your doctor in order to really follow advice. That trust MUST NOT BE misplaced, or the consequences can be…serious. So, prove to your own satisfaction that you are in the right hands/getting the right advice. This should be done before you start trying/having to pick and choose what advice to follow and what advice to ignore. A doctor should not take offense when asked for more explanation PRIOR to beginning treatment. It is getting told “I have not really been doing what you suggested. I am not getting better. I think that maybe______ I saw on tv is going on” every week that can be challenging.

Now the points that may actually be helpful:

1.) I am unaware of spinal length being a determining factor in your suitability to lift weights. Is it possible that you either misunderstood what your doc said (perfectly understandable), or that your doctor did a bad job explaining the condition(regretfully very common)? I can think of plenty of anatomical conditions that are contra indications to weight training, but long spine short limbs are not one of them (as noted by a different poster). If there is a reason your doctor thinks that you should not weight train, what is it (the more technical the better here)?

2.) Sort of going off of point 1. In my mind weight/strength training is largely scalable. Meaning, we can always put less or more weight on the bar. We can modify exercises. We can always slow down and check form. Training martial arts/combat sports loses that scalability at some point. Your opponent is, by definition, not on your side. I write this because if you have a legit pathology that should keep you out of the weight room entirely, I have difficulty believing training grappling/boxing is a good idea. My suspicion is that the particular way you were weight training was an issue and you are/will be good to do, but that is only a suspicion.

3.) Here is the link to one of Stuart McGill’s books on the subject. This one is directed more for application and less towards clinicians. Here it is on amazon.uk

I believe the current edition is the 4th edition. I do not know if that is the one being sold at the link. I have the third and it is excellent. Here it is on backfitpro. This is a Canadian sight so shipping may or may not be an issue.

http://www.backfitpro.com/books.php

4.)Kmcnyc really had an excellent post. The only points of contention I might offer is to change McGill is THE BEST, to one of the best, and that done properly Aikido or Aikijutsu is not simply a parlor trick. Finding it done properly though is a trick in itself.

Regards,

Robert A

[quote]Miss Parker wrote:
Roguevagina [/quote]
This sounds a lot like a film I watched one time…for research…for a paper…in college.