T Nation

Nov. 28th GOP Debate

I think I’m leaning more and more towards Huckabee. I thought he had a real good night.

Is Guliani still leading? The more I hear him talk, the less I like him. And is it just me, or does Fred Thompson look older everytime we see him?

Thoughts?

So I just found out that Chuck Norris is endorsing Huckabee. How cool is that?

Huckabee has a very likeable onstage presence. He came across well tonight, as he did in prior debates.

Fred has so far taken the role of respectable grandfather and the other candidates have played along.

Mitt and Giuliani were the little kids going at it. Not the first time. They both stumbled, as did McCain.

Tancredo got a few good quips in…even handing Huckabee his one and only rhetorical loss of the night…about going to Mars, no less.

Duncan Hunter was the hardcore military guy, as always. He’ll get the vote of old farts wearing USS Iowa caps.

Ron Paul held his own throughout the night and managed to get several powerful themes across (Rebuke to McCain: “Why do you think I’m the leading candidate in donations from active duty service members?” Applause)

Paul’s campaign vid was the best of the bunch and was tactically BRILLIANT – by exposing the scope of the “Ron Paul Revolution” to people in the audience and whoever was watching on television, he just earned himself some HUGE exposure. People will most definitely be asking questions. And practically at the very end of the debate: “Did you know that we raised 4.3 million in a single day?” - He said it directly to the audience, as if daring the Republican establishment to dismiss him. Was brilliant.

You should rename this thread “Youtube-CNN Republican Debate Nov. 28”.

It’s more appropriate and will draw more attention. We can make this the official thread for discussing the debate.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Huckabee has a very likeable onstage presence. He came across well tonight, as he did in prior debates.

Fred has so far taken the role of respectable grandfather and the other candidates have played along.

Mitt and Giuliani were the little kids going at it. Not the first time. They both stumbled, as did McCain.

Tancredo got a few good quips in…even handing Huckabee his one and only rhetorical loss of the night…about going to Mars, no less.

Duncan Hunter was the hardcore military guy, as always. He’ll get the vote of old farts wearing USS Iowa caps.

Ron Paul held his own throughout the night and managed to get several powerful themes across (Rebuke to McCain: “Why do you think I’m the leading candidate in donations from active duty service members?” Applause)

Paul’s campaign vid was the best of the bunch and was tactically BRILLIANT – by exposing the scope of the “Ron Paul Revolution” to people in the audience and whoever was watching on television, he just earned himself some HUGE exposure. People will most definitely be asking questions. And practically at the very end of the debate: “Did you know that we raised 4.3 million in a single day?” - He said it directly to the audience, as if daring the Republican establishment to dismiss him. Was brilliant.[/quote]

Actually I was more impressed with McCain tonight than i have been at any other point of his campaign. I’m not saying I like him, I just thought he had a good night.

In regards to Mars, Huckabee did suggest that Hillary Clinton should be the first to go, so I think that would be worth the cost.

I really think that the more Giuliani talks, the more he hurts himself. His response to black on black crime didn’t make much sense. He seemed flustered the whole night.

I still think Romney is in the lead, but Huckabee is definitely closing the gap.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
You should rename this thread “Youtube-CNN Republican Debate Nov. 28”.

It’s more appropriate and will draw more attention. We can make this the official thread for discussing the debate.[/quote]

Youtube and CNN have gotten enough advertising already. I’m not a fan of big businesses sponsoring these things anyways.

But they are well established memes.

What did you think of Paul’s performance?

I didn’t get to watch it but heard on the radio at work the comment from Rudy about someone having illegals working at their house. In response he got owned big time, he clearly didn’t think out the burn before delivering it.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
But they are well established memes.

What did you think of Paul’s performance?[/quote]

I’ll be honest. It is very difficult for me to give an objective review of Ron Paul because I still am not able to take him seriously. I intentionally avoided saying anything about him earlier because I didn’t want this to turn into another Ron Paul thread, and my opinion about him is probably biased. I am willing to listen to what others have to say about him, but to me he just screams crazy libertarian.

Somebody made the point a while back that the rest of congress would keep his crazier ideas in check, and I think that is a valid point. I have considered him for that reason, and I like his views on taxes and the economy. But when it comes down to it, I want to vote for somebody whose views are closest to mine, and Ron Paul is not that guy.

I’d like Huckabee if I didn’t think he had serious mental issues (he believes the Earth is 6000 years old).

He comes off, besides the crazy, as a decent guy. So does Romney, to me, for some reason.

Obama, Romney, Huckabee, Paul, and Kucinich all come off as decent people to me. Juliani and Clinton both come off as total ass wipes.

[quote]tedro wrote:
Nominal Prospect wrote:
But they are well established memes.

What did you think of Paul’s performance?

I’ll be honest. It is very difficult for me to give an objective review of Ron Paul because I still am not able to take him seriously. I intentionally avoided saying anything about him earlier because I didn’t want this to turn into another Ron Paul thread, and my opinion about him is probably biased. I am willing to listen to what others have to say about him, but to me he just screams crazy libertarian.

Somebody made the point a while back that the rest of congress would keep his crazier ideas in check, and I think that is a valid point. I have considered him for that reason, and I like his views on taxes and the economy. But when it comes down to it, I want to vote for somebody whose views are closest to mine, and Ron Paul is not that guy.[/quote]

Oops, lol - sorry to fuck up your thread.

But I hope you do realize that you are in libertarian country. Ron Paul is supported on every lifting forum I have been to.

Huckabee is the opposite of what I generally want: socially conservative, but with a populist/liberal bent on economics.

Some amusing live-blogged debate coverage:

http://vodkapundit.com/archives/009298.php

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/123690.html

I admit, I’m starting to warm up more to McCain, even though he’s not a perfect candidate - unfortunately, there isn’t a best choice for me in this field.

I don’t think there is a best choice for anyone intelligent…

Some thoughts:

–The Republicans had a good idea when they thought of ignoring the Youtube debate the first time. They dealt with a much harsher crowd than the Dems did. It seemed as if many of the questions were by obvious dems looking to cause trouble rather than a republican trying to figure out who he wants to vote for.

–Guiliani sucks so hard it made my door slam all the way in Idaho. Romney got him good re: the illegal immigrants working at his house. I mean really, the guy is such an insincere douche that it blows my mind. Unfortunately Americans are too retarded to care and it still doesn’t matter.

–I like how Romney attacked the idea of subsidizing everything yet refused to stop subsidizing farmers. His little Bible answer was grossly insincere as well. I don’t believe the Bible word for word but I know damn well that fundy Mormons don’t.

–I keep having to remind myself that I can’t vote McCain. I really want to like the guy.

–Not allowing gays to openly serve in the military is bullshit.

–I also really like Thompson and would vote for him if he had some fire in his belly.

–Onto the obvious…Ron Paul. I think this was one of his best performances. At least in the first hour he sounded smarter and more squared away than I have heard him before. Unfortunately, then he gets those pesky foreign policy questions and loses it. I actually think he scored some points today, though it really doesn’t matter.

–Ron Paul, Fred Thompson or maybe Huckabee can get a vote from me…that’s it. I read a poll about a week ago saying that any of the top 5 (Guiliani, Romney, McCain, Thompson, Huck) can beat Hillary. Before you decide to vote for one of the first two socialists or authoritarians just because they can beat Hillary, remember you can vote for one of the last two who don’t suck.

Semper,

mike

Guiliani: smart, but not especially impressive. I don’t think he is a horrible candidate, but I fail to see why he has such a substantial lead. Looks like he is having trouble defending certain positions, like sanctuary cities.

Romney: decent job at times, but comes off to me as too slick and unfortunately has a Clintonesque habit of waffling on answers - which is normal to a degree, but he doesn’t hide it well. Still looks like an opportunistic candidate who will say what needs to be said to get elected. Speaks well, though, and seems likable.

Thompson: I like his bluntness and policy proposals - does he want the job? I am still not sure, and I like Thompson. He is commanding when he is fully invested - and I just don’t see it yet. But he has charm and a natural toughness. Is definitely the common-sense candidate and continues to play that angle. Great line on the guns he owns.

McCain: solid performance, and I appreciate a man who speaks his mind even if I don’t fully agree. Exposed the painfully naive Ron Paul on his isolationism/non-interventionism baloney. I think he really helped his chances. Nice command, is serious about the job and the direction he wants to take the country, and he emphasized his record, which looked good to conservatives tired of the status quo. Good job.

Hunter: presidential timber? Probably not, but well-spoken and solid on his policies when he talked about them.

Paul: I have never watched a full debate with him in it, and I cam away unimpressed, especially given the hype. His voice squeaky and his manner twitchy, which gives him no command. I also thought his response to “conspiracy theories” was hilarious - he thinks there are plans that are secret and no one will talk about, but they aren’t conspiracies. An unserious candidate, and always has been.

Tancredo: had a few nice lines, but overall, he should drop out soon. Nothing going on there.

Oops.

Huckabee: a nice job, overall. Good answers, charming guy. Problem I have is that he was pretty light on substance. Sound byte debates don’t lead to good opportunities to go into detail, but I need to see more specifically what a President Huckabee would like to do from a policy perspective. Still light in that area to me, and he didn’t do much in the debate to help himself there.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I’d like Huckabee if I didn’t think he had serious mental issues (he believes the Earth is 6000 years old).

[/quote]

This is the reason that keeps me from supporting Huck.

After this debate I think Rudy is done, especially after the story of him using taxpayer dollars to fool around with his mistress.

The one question of the night that made me cringe was the dude holding the bible saying “Do You believe everyword in this book?”. The candidates looked more nervous on this question than any other one.

Oh yeah McCain came out like a dick in his exchange with Paul. He had to pull his POW card. Shit I got 2 uncles who were POW’s in Korea and Nam and they never, ever discuss it with anyone. the only reason i even found out my one uncle was a POW was when I was a kid and didn’t eat all my dinner he told me his POW story. Needless to say I finished every dinner since then.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Huckabee is the opposite of what I generally want: socially conservative, but with a populist/liberal bent on economics.

Some amusing live-blogged debate coverage:

http://vodkapundit.com/archives/009298.php

http://www.reason.com/blog/show/123690.html

I admit, I’m starting to warm up more to McCain, even though he’s not a perfect candidate - unfortunately, there isn’t a best choice for me in this field.[/quote]

I like the fact that he is socially conservative, but I admit it is his views on taxes and economics that initially had me turned off. But the fact is that when he left office he left Arkansas with a huge surplus, recommended the surplus go back to the people, and signed the Americans for Tax Reform Pledge. This alone doesn’t say much, but unlike some of the other candidates, when he says he will not raise taxes, I don’t have any problem believing him.

I also like that he supports the FairTax. As I have said before, I would rather see a flat tax than the FairTax, but I like the fact that he openly endorses it. I would be for a consumption tax if I saw a plan without loopholes.
And besides, to the best of my knowledge, Brownback was the only one openly supporting a flat tax.

[quote]Rocky101 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
I’d like Huckabee if I didn’t think he had serious mental issues (he believes the Earth is 6000 years old).

This is the reason that keeps me from supporting Huck.

After this debate I think Rudy is done, especially after the story of him using taxpayer dollars to fool around with his mistress.

The one question of the night that made me cringe was the dude holding the bible saying “Do You believe everyword in this book?”. The candidates looked more nervous on this question than any other one.

Oh yeah McCain came out like a dick in his exchange with Paul. He had to pull his POW card. Shit I got 2 uncles who were POW’s in Korea and Nam and they never, ever discuss it with anyone. the only reason i even found out my one uncle was a POW was when I was a kid and didn’t eat all my dinner he told me his POW story. Needless to say I finished every dinner since then.
[/quote]

I thought McCain looked very good and made Paul look like an idiot. He was just stating things as they are.

Sane people don’t need more reasons to vote Republican.

However, I’ll toss one more in:

cnn + clinton = more planted questions.

Oh, I’m laughing at you people who are underestimating Rudy.

I hope your candidates losing doesn’t make you too bitter to vote.

JeffR