Nothing to Do With Abortion

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God demands blood for the atonement of sins. [/quote]

This is where the train comes of the tracks (in one of many areas) in my opinion, and why I am completely confident that if there is a higher being, I’m in good graces.

You don’t need church for this, you don’t need prayer. You don’t need anything but an honest feeling in your heart and soul, and a correction of action. (ie: you may think killing is your sin, and pray for forgiveness, but if you walk away from the prayer and slay another person and go back and kneel, I find it hard ot believe you are saved simply by going through the motions of praying again.) Which logically leads to my point that, you don’t need any motions of rituals at all, but only honesty with yourself and doing right in action.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with those things, like praying, loving a jewish man who died on a cross a couple thousand years ago, going to church, reading the bible, any of it. And I respect people who do those things. I wouldn’t put someone down for it. I just don’t think it is necessary.

This is an omnipotent being we are talking about right? The creator of all that is? To think that being cares whether or not you go to mass every Sunday, when your lifetime is a blip to that being, because time is meaningless to it, seems, I don’t know, like a waste of effort. Because walking into a church and going through mass doesn’t mean a damn thing if your heart isn’t true. [/quote]

I agree with you to a certain point, and what you are talking about is Repentance. Which basically means doing a 180. You turn around and change what you are doing. It is hard, and I continue to sin even though I do not want to. Paul talks about this extensively in the New Testament of the Bible. Life is not a sprint but a marathon.

Church is very important and this is why. Look at the ten commandments, and also what Jesus said. Our relationship is not only with God, but also our fellow man. The first 4 commandments are about our relationship with God, and the next 6 are our relationship with our fellow man. Jesus said, “Love your God with all your heart, mind, and strength, and equally important love your neighbor as yourself.” The interpersonal relationships with other humans is very important, and just as important as our relationship with God. Church brings together both in one place and time. All of the people together in one voice, heart, mind, and strength worshiping God.

The one thing I struggle with is bringing a balance of Love and Justice/Truth. Lets use an example that we all are talking about these days, abortion. Does God hate abortion, yes, but does God love the person having the abortion and the person performing the abortion, yes. How can we rectify these two seemingly different stances? I don’t know, and that is why I struggle with it. The one thing I do know is there are consequences for our actions. “The wages of sin is death.” “All have sinned.” If you sin you will die, and it is pretty clear we are all going to die.

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Does it matter? From what I’ve been told he loves me. [/quote]

Your father loves you. Do you not spend time talking with him?
[/quote]

His love isnt contingent on my conversational frequency, it is inherit and unconditional.

For someone who’s religious beliefs do not recognize Christ as anything more than a man, by that logic doesnt he still love my little heathen jewish booty by design in the event that he is? [/quote]

Yes God/Jesus does love you no matter what.

Waittz you know I am your friend, so I am not going to sugar coat this. God is Love, but he also believes in Justice just as equally. God demands blood for the atonement of sins. You know this from the Torah. The question is who’s blood is going to pay for your sins?
[/quote]

I’ll find out when I get to the otherside. [/quote]

I will never push or coerce you to make a decision you do not want to make, but I hope you figure out that answer before you get to the other side.

Just like our Real Estate discussions, I am always here to answer a question and help out.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
God demands blood for the atonement of sins. [/quote]

This is where the train comes of the tracks (in one of many areas) in my opinion, and why I am completely confident that if there is a higher being, I’m in good graces.

You don’t need church for this, you don’t need prayer. You don’t need anything but an honest feeling in your heart and soul, and a correction of action. (ie: you may think killing is your sin, and pray for forgiveness, but if you walk away from the prayer and slay another person and go back and kneel, I find it hard ot believe you are saved simply by going through the motions of praying again.) Which logically leads to my point that, you don’t need any motions of rituals at all, but only honesty with yourself and doing right in action.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with those things, like praying, loving a jewish man who died on a cross a couple thousand years ago, going to church, reading the bible, any of it. And I respect people who do those things. I wouldn’t put someone down for it. I just don’t think it is necessary.

This is an omnipotent being we are talking about right? The creator of all that is? To think that being cares whether or not you go to mass every Sunday, when your lifetime is a blip to that being, because time is meaningless to it, seems, I don’t know, like a waste of effort. Because walking into a church and going through mass doesn’t mean a damn thing if your heart isn’t true. [/quote]

You need both. One is not sufficient without the other. People perform and act in form of rituals all the time and nobody gives is a second thought with the exception of religion. Then people think it’s weird.
Said rituals are a tool. They are a means of communication and grounding and they have their place in religious life, they are important but certainly not the only thing. One must walk the talk with humility.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Does it matter? From what I’ve been told he loves me. [/quote]

Your father loves you. Do you not spend time talking with him?
[/quote]

His love isnt contingent on my conversational frequency, it is inherit and unconditional.

For someone who’s religious beliefs do not recognize Christ as anything more than a man, by that logic doesnt he still love my little heathen jewish booty by design in the event that he is? [/quote]

Yes God/Jesus does love you no matter what.

Waittz you know I am your friend, so I am not going to sugar coat this. God is Love, but he also believes in Justice just as equally. God demands blood for the atonement of sins. You know this from the Torah. The question is who’s blood is going to pay for your sins?
[/quote]

I’ll find out when I get to the otherside. [/quote]

I will never push or coerce you to make a decision you do not want to make, but I hope you figure out that answer before you get to the other side.

Just like our Real Estate discussions, I am always here to answer a question and help out.
[/quote]

And I am always appretiative

[quote]pat wrote:

You need both. [/quote]

So let me try and see if I understand with an example.

I’m driving down the highway. The car next to me blows out a tire, flips and rolls around my car. I, totally by chance, happened to be looking to my left when the blow out happens and hit my brakes in time so the flipping car misses mine, and I survive what would have been my certain death had I not seen the blowout.

I pull over, look upward and say “thank you”. I’m sincere and grateful that whatever it was that made me randomly look at that car at that moment made me do it. I then spend the rest of the week consciously grateful to be alive and thankful for the guiding help.

That isn’t going to be good enough for an omnipotent being? I need to go to mass too?

For the record, this is NOT what I’m trying to do. I’m not putting the rituals down at all, and sorry if it comes off that way. All I’m saying it I don’t see why you have to in order to be in the graces of the being.

Why are we all made as individuals if we all have to communicate in the same way?

Again, no disrespect here, these are real questions for my learning experience.

countingbeans â??

I do NOT have my Masters in Apologetics, yet I am interested in learning more about the Catholic Faith and as a result I hope to share with people and help them avoid the same pitfalls that I once made. Without GOD I was driving nowhere and fast, yet with GOD I am still fallen and praying that I might possibly be in His Graces towards the end of my life, GOOD fortune may very likely play a part.

Going to weekly/daily Mass will only help. The Bible is read in a three year rotation and the readings are often familiar yet I love hearing a new understanding of Scripture. As an individual my comprehension is NOTHING compared to a global group of men who completely devote their lives to GOD.

Am I making sense or have I muddled up another response? Honest question too! ; )

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So let me try and see if I understand with an example.

I’m driving down the highway. The car next to me blows out a tire, flips and rolls around my car. I, totally by chance, happened to be looking to my left when the blow out happens and hit my brakes in time so the flipping car misses mine, and I survive what would have been my certain death had I not seen the blowout.

I pull over, look upward and say “thank you”. I’m sincere and grateful that whatever it was that made me randomly look at that car at that moment made me do it. I then spend the rest of the week consciously grateful to be alive and thankful for the guiding help.

That isn’t going to be good enough for an omnipotent being? I need to go to mass too?[/quote]

After praying the Rosary on a frequent basis, it takes me effort to always remain focused on the meditations. Sure my mind wanders, but I can only try. I also understand the rituals to be offerings to GOD, rituals that have over two thousand years of history.

Because we are one body, with one voice praying to the Almighty GOD. Catholics want to literally love to storm the gates of Heaven. I may sneak in that way, I can only hope. Individually the pathway is tiny, winding and narrow. Only with the help of other men who know the Truth do I have any possibility. As I stumble, I may need help picking myself up.

Again, I have no disrespect to any person of this world. Emotions have always been my downfall.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

I pull over, look upward and say “thank you”. I’m sincere and grateful that whatever it was that made me randomly look at that car at that moment made me do it. I then spend the rest of the week consciously grateful to be alive and thankful for the guiding help.

That isn’t going to be good enough for an omnipotent being? I need to go to mass too?
[/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

I am happy to be alive, and I even somewhat kind of suspect that something we would consider to be a “god” exists and is responsible for my existence.

But do I believe this entity, if it indeed exists, to be a petulant, jealous, pedant? Do I think that the author of the Horsehead nebula pefers that my dick look like a soldier rather than an anteater? No. I think people are petulant, jealous, pedantic tyrants, and when they made shit up about God, they created Him in their image.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I think people are petulant, jealous, pedantic tyrants, and when they made shit up about God, they created Him in their image.[/quote]

Agreed

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Does it matter? From what I’ve been told he loves me. [/quote]

Your father loves you. Do you not spend time talking with him?
[/quote]

His love isnt contingent on my conversational frequency, it is inherit and unconditional.

For someone who’s religious beliefs do not recognize Christ as anything more than a man, by that logic doesnt he still love my little heathen jewish booty by design in the event that he is? [/quote]

Yes God/Jesus does love you no matter what.

Waittz you know I am your friend, so I am not going to sugar coat this. God is Love, but he also believes in Justice just as equally. God demands blood for the atonement of sins. You know this from the Torah. The question is who’s blood is going to pay for your sins?
[/quote]

That of lambs and doves, if they ever get that Temple rebuilt.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Does it matter? From what I’ve been told he loves me. [/quote]

Your father loves you. Do you not spend time talking with him?
[/quote]

His love isnt contingent on my conversational frequency, it is inherit and unconditional.

For someone who’s religious beliefs do not recognize Christ as anything more than a man, by that logic doesnt he still love my little heathen jewish booty by design in the event that he is? [/quote]

Yes God/Jesus does love you no matter what.

Waittz you know I am your friend, so I am not going to sugar coat this. God is Love, but he also believes in Justice just as equally. God demands blood for the atonement of sins. You know this from the Torah. The question is who’s blood is going to pay for your sins?
[/quote]

That of lambs and doves, if they ever get that Temple rebuilt. [/quote]

You know it will happen it is foretold in Revelation as you know.