T Nation

Not Sure If This Makes Sense, Opinions?


I'll use Bonez guide to cycle proposal to avoid massive flaming

  1. Introduce yourself. Include age, traning history,rough estimate of current lifting stats, previous cycle history, cycle goals, reason for wanting to use AAS if it's a first cycle (gain, lose, pre-contest, sport specific, etc).

24 years old
5ft 7in
182 lbs
2nd cycle (first was an 1-8wk sust 1-6wk tren ace)

Goal for this cycle is put on some quality size, while limiting bloat

  1. Clearly layout a cycle proposal. Include duration of specific drugs and doses. Include specific reasons for the drug choices.

Wk 1-10: 250mg Sust injected 2x a week (total of 500 mg a week)
Wk 1-6: 200mg Deca injected 2x a week (total of 400 mg a week)
Wk 7-10: 75mg Winny injected MWF (total of 225 mg a week)

  1. Include ancillary drugs you will use and plans for PCT.

PCT is Tamoxifen starting 2 weeks after last shot of Sust 40/30/20/10
Adex starting week 1, .25 EOD unless I feel I need more
Caber on hand just incase, should hopefully not need it as I tolerated Tren fine

Basically I'm using winny at the end to harden up a little bit and possibly lose some water.
I read somewhere that if Deca isn't agreeing with you nips a little winny can also help that.
Let me know what you all think, winny dosage might be a little off so advise if you can.

Thanks All.


Standard split for test to deca is 5/3. I've heard some getting away with 5/4 but you'll have to figure it out on your own and see how it works for you.

Also Sustanon typically is best to do EOD injections as opposed to like a M/Th split due to the short estered tests in the blend. Some people that have tried the M/Th split noticed a "crash" between injections when dealing with Sust. EOD injections keep blood levels stable which minimizes negative side effects.

If you're wanting that injection protocol I would go with Test E as opposed to Sust.



A crash between injections when there is only 1 ester of 4 that has a half life below 3days, totalling just 30mg per 250mg?


What is definitely the case is that with fewer injections the doses naturally needs to be higher, and drops farther (although not as drastically as single estered tests thus the generally lower water retention and gyno occurances) so will increase 5a-Reductate and aromatase activity.

Clearly a smaller more frequent dose is better with this and any drug in this regard.


All I am doing is giving personal experiences that have been told to me. No need for you to even attempt to try to tell me it isnt true. Think its not true? Take it up with them. They said they wont do Sust 2x/wk again. They'll do EOD or stick with Enanthate. Like a smart person would do.

Sust injection protocol = EOD. I always suggest M,W,F to keep it simple. You want an E3D or 2x/wk injection protocol go to a single estered test. End of story. Regardless of what brook says.



Pulled out of my friends log.. (shortened because its written and I dont feel like typing everything)

1st time with sustanon:
"Halfway through the 12 week cycle of Sustanon I started noticing itchy nipples and started Adex and sides disappeared"

2nd time with sustanon:
"I gave Sustanon a second try and this time went with a slighty different injection protocol and upped my dosage. I injected EOD for 10 weeks and actually had 0 problems with any estrogen related side effects."

Be smart and do the injection protocol that makes sense and minimizes sides.



my experience is that sust works best EOD. sorry, don't have any direct experience w/deca or winny.


Take it up with them? What are you talking about - YOU were the one that repeated this 'information' - i'll take it up with YOU.

Besides, 'regardless of what Brook says' i was actually saying that the more frequently injected the better!

I never once in my post suggested that i would think anyone should use sust 2x/wk! In fact it is common knowledge i often shoot even long estered drugs daily.

The issue i have is suggesting that you get a hormonal crash during an injection protocol of 2x/wk with a multi estered drug like Sustanon/Omna - whatever. Now whether this is directly from an evaluation of yours OR you repeating it from someone else's experiences - i don't really care, either way it is misinformation. Shit, even using prop you wouldn't get a 'crash' with a bi-weekly injection plan.. given active life.

But to compound the point.. no matter the drug, the sides will be reduced by increasing the injection frequency, whether that is a un-estered drug or a undeconoate estered drug.


I relayed real life experiences. That's all. I saw no reason for them to lie so I relayed the information. If you think its not true, yes go take it up with them because I'm not going to split hairs over something that doesnt even matter. And YES regardless of what you say.

You're giving him advice on his suggestion on a 2x/wk injection protocol for sust when you should be telling him its stupid. because it is. especially if he has access to single estered test like Enan which can be ran without incurring any added problems at 2x/wk. and if he wants to use the sust he needs to be injecting at eod. end of story. end of thread. no reason to keep this discussion going. have a nice day.



You have a fundamental inability to read and comprehend what i write.

Real life experiences IMO are from the use of the drugs personally or from considered and moderately controlled application of drugs to clients too.

If i give advice telling someone why a protocol is not optimal, and how to rectify that - surely that would be beneficial than telling them it is 'stupid'? Let alone your arrogance assuming you tell me what i should or should not be saying to people!

Jesus. You upped your dosages recently? Actually, considering the type of advice you have been giving of late (ie. all from others experiences) what experience have you actually got?

Don't answer that, i really do not care - i just wanted to point out that query to those who may think your offal is worth reading.


Knowledge is knowledge.

Cycle one.. 12 wks worth of Test E @ 500mg/wk / Drol kickstart

Cycle two.. 12 wks worth of Test E @ 500mg/wk / Deca 300mg/wk for 8wks

Cycle three.. 10 wks worth of Sust @ 750mg/wk / Drol kickstart (INJ 1ml M,W,F -- Yes the smart way to do it)

Cycle four (end of this summer) Test Prop / Tren Ace

Thats personal experience. Bodybuilding gym I workout at I tend to learn much more. And excuse the arrogance but you asked for it when you started going behind every post attempting to tell me im wrong. And when you have access to Test E and you choose to use Sust to inject it 2x/wk, yes im going to call it stupid. Especially after 2 mins of research would give you the necessary injection protocol for this compound.



So three cycles then. Thought as much.

You are still incapable of seeing where i came from though! Forget it pal.


Yeah three cycles. I even numbered them for you as you can see.. "Cycle one" "Cycle two" "Cycle THREE"

We're not pals. Thought as much? Talk about arrogance. How about you give your opinion I'll give mine and you'll quit attempting to prove me wrong especially when you cant.

I spread my cycles out by choice.

Your ignorance is coming through your pores when you attempt to judge me solely based on personal experience with gear which I have plenty of.



I am not about to argue with your pathetic opinions any longer, i have work to do.

Work spreading my ignorance and misinformation within the industry - it seems.

Fuckin loser.