T Nation

Not Suited for Anabolic Chemicals?


#1

Had a first bad experiences with pro hormones and also seemingly with clomid for PCT.

I am male,43, 5'10, 113kg 20% bf, 20years training.

Long story short, I started my first proho's, a 4 week Msten cycle at recommended dosage, 2 caps/day. By day 16 I had to stop due to extreme ball pain. I'm not talking about "blue balls" that can be relieved manually. It started off like that, I thought no bigge, as I had heard it is not unusual to get some discomfort when your T production shuts down or starts up again.

I started to get a bit worried when the ache became more frequent, then pretty constant. One night I woke up to a strange sensation in my balls, it felt like they had turned into liquid, though it wasn't a painful feeling. Low and behold they had become very soft to the touch but hadn't lost any size.

I hoped that would be the end of it, but by 2 days later the ache was constant, so I went off the Msten.

The guy who sold me the stuff said it was a short cycle so it probably wouldn't shut me down, sold me some Cellucor P6 for PCT. I talked to the sellers boss, who has 4 years of proho use, he said I did the right thing to stop when I did, as the pain was excessive.

The pain did start to lessen, still took ibuprofen and by a weeks time it was gone, balls became a little less jellied of their own accord. By this time I had received some clomid, and took this 25mg/day. I could feel a good sensation in my balls minutes later and they quickly regained meatiness, and firmness, in a couple of days.

After about a week on the clomid even at the low dose I started to get a dry mouth, achy sinuses, sore joints, flu like symptoms, which increased in severity despite an increased water intake. I had heard clomid was a very safe drug especially at low doses, and for short periods.

After a week of this and no improvement with the flu like symptoms I thought I'd go off the clomid and by 2 days I had gone back to normal. My balls feel good still a week since, but becoming more normal like pre cycle, not hard and massive.

I'm after some sage advice, as to whether side effects like extremely painful ball shutdown are compound specific and or dose amount specific? I have since heard of guys getting the same bad ball pain from epistane, yet had previous good proho use with other compounds.

Would it be worthwhile trying an injectable test cycle instead or am I likely to get mad sore balls from that when I shut down too?
Same thing with the clomid. Should I go back on the clomid at a half dose (12.5mg) or would nolva be a better product for my PCT?
Thanks in advance.


#2

Test will shut you down. If the pain was due to shutdown you run the same risk with test. You are blessed with options though. Have you researched HCG at all? It is used with Test to prevent shutdown of the testes. Your pituitary will still shutdown but that doesn’t sound like your problem. You will still stop producing natural testosterone and need to go through a proper PCT but nolva for PCT is just fine and for many is much more agreeable than clomid.


#3

What were your goals with the MSten in the first place? Are you a strength athlete? Are you trying to get in better shape? Are you competitive? If you can give us a better idea of what you’re trying to accomplish with AAS, perhaps we can help you with a reasonable alternative.


#4

Thanks guys, I have heard of hcg, I just don’t have an “in” at the moment for the stuff, and it is prohibited to import into my country, just a matter of finding local connections. Did you mean hcg as a monotherapy, or to use it whilst on cycle in with the aim of preventing shutdown of my balls?

I was trying MSten as it has a short cycle, dabbling into the world of anabolics. Been training for a long time, and I’m getting older, gains are pretty hard won now. Looking for a boost in the short term and if successful maybe get more serious several cycles a year or even blast and cruise. Not interested in competing at BB or powerlifting at the moment.

I just enjoy lifting weights, it is a big part of my life, and has been for a long time. I suppose I was brought up in the Weider over the counter supplements bullshit era, + hard work. I triained at home, not at a hardcore gym most of the time so I didn’t have many dealings with guys on the gear. Pretty much every guy I idolised as role models was on some PED’s, I guess a few years ago I opened my eyes and did some research, came to the conclusion I’m not getting any younger, and it was time to test the waters.

Had my bloods done, from memory my test levels were in the normal range, but nearer the lower side, PSA was low, everything else was pretty normal, so my Dr wasn’t going to prescribe TRT.

My aim with anabolics is to be the best I can be and still stay as reasonably safe regarding side effects. I have AI, serms. I prefer the Golden era bodybuilder physiques, when anabolics were just starting to get popular, doses were lower than these days.

I guess what I’d like to know is whether the painful shut down was due to the specific compound or if I am in the minority of guys that gets a painful shutdown regardless of the compound. I haven’t come across the subject too much, apparently it isn’t a problem for most guys. Thanks again.


#5

Using it on a testosterone cycle to prevent testicular shutdown.

It is against forum rules to share sources but if you are savvy with a computer you can find forums that will help you with out of your country suppliers that will send you all of your supplies in a pretty discreet way. You can get your testosterone, AI, PCT, and HCG all from one place in one package. This is the way I would go.

As far as it being compound specific. No way to know unless you try some thing else. I’d lean toward saying any shutdown would cause the same pain, but that is only a guess. That said. I tried a PH years ago and was shutdown from it. It did cause a slight ache but nothing horrible. I’ve never gotten that from AAS.


#6

Hi again, What sort of regimen would you suggest for HCG during a cycle? I guess I would run arimidex as well, rather than waiting for gyno or female pattern fat deposits/bloating to show up?


#7

[quote]Beyond Beyond wrote:
Hi again, What sort of regimen would you suggest for HCG during a cycle? I guess I would run arimidex as well, rather than waiting for gyno or female pattern fat deposits/bloating to show up?[/quote]

Absolutely run an AI like arimidex. No question.

Are just thinking about testing the waters or run a full cycle? If you were to plan for a 10wk cycle. You could run test e 10wks at 500/wk. Run your hcg probably from week 1-12 as you seem to shutdown very quickly. 250iu x2/wk.

You will still need proper PCT. If you do this or something similar make sure to get nolvadex as well

Just my $.02 maybe see what anyone else thinks.