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Not Progressing with Bench, WS4SB

So as of two weeks ago, I rotated back to regular barbell bench press. During that time it seemed like my bench press had increased from 5RM originally being about 130 lbs. to about 140 lbs.; however, last week as well as this week, my 5RM had ended up being the same.

I’ll admit that there have been some weeks were I have skipped the max effort lower body and/or repetition upper body body day, but I have been doing all the exercises om the max effort upper body days every week. I thought that if I at least do a max effort upper body workout day during the week, then my regular barbell bench press strength should go up every week to some extent.

What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?[/quote]

It’s because he’s doing Defranco’s WS4SB program, not the regular WSB program.

OP, strength isn’t just determined by your “max effort day” stuff. If you skip the dynamic upper body workouts don’t expect to continue increasing because you are performing only half the work called for that week, and volume is important in overall increase in athleticism and strength as well in the long haul.

You basically just said “I’ll admit there were some weeks where I only did 1 day of training instead of the 3 the program calls for”. You shouldn’t be surprised if you stall doing that.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

It’s because he’s doing Defranco’s WS4SB program, not the regular WSB program.

OP, strength isn’t just determined by your “max effort day” stuff. If you skip the dynamic upper body workouts don’t expect to continue increasing because you are performing only half the work called for that week, and volume is important in overall increase in athleticism and strength as well in the long haul.

You basically just said “I’ll admit there were some weeks where I only did 1 day of training instead of the 3 the program calls for”. You shouldn’t be surprised if you stall doing that.[/quote]

I’m aware of the program he’s on. I actually want to hear his reasoning to see what his understanding of the program is.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?[/quote]

I rotate the ME exercises every three weeks. Although, I just thought or perhaps realized something. Am I supposed to rotate back to the regular barbell bench press exercise only after I have rotated through the six other ME exercises?

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?[/quote]

I rotate the ME exercises every three weeks. Although, I just thought or perhaps realized something. Am I supposed to rotate back to the regular barbell bench press exercise only after I have rotated through the six other ME exercises?[/quote]

Before I answer, can you answer my other questions?

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?[/quote]

It’s because he’s doing Defranco’s WS4SB program, not the regular WSB program.

OP, strength isn’t just determined by your “max effort day” stuff. If you skip the dynamic upper body workouts don’t expect to continue increasing because you are performing only half the work called for that week, and volume is important in overall increase in athleticism and strength as well in the long haul.

You basically just said “I’ll admit there were some weeks where I only did 1 day of training instead of the 3 the program calls for”. You shouldn’t be surprised if you stall doing that.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying, but last week I actually did both an entire max effort upper body day session on Mon. and an entire repetition upper body day session on Thurs., although I didn’t do any lower body sessions -not sure how much weight training the lower body matters with regards to being able to bench press more-. So, I don’t get why as of yesterday when I did a max effort upper body session, I noticed that my 5RM regular barbell bench press didn’t go up relative to last week.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?[/quote]

I rotate the ME exercises every three weeks. Although, I just thought or perhaps realized something. Am I supposed to rotate back to the regular barbell bench press exercise only after I have rotated through the six other ME exercises?[/quote]

Before I answer, can you answer my other questions?[/quote]

The ME exercises have so far been only the regular barbell bench press and weighted chin-ups. I am doing a 5RM two weeks in a row because I know that doing a 5RM is supposed to be the sweet spot for developing both strength and muscle mass. Also, DeFranco wants trainees to do 3-5 reps on your last set -which is supposed to be your max-out set- for the max effort lift that choose to work on during your max effort day.

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
The ME exercises have so far been only the regular barbell bench press and weighted chin-ups. I am doing a 5RM two weeks in a row because I know that doing a 5RM is supposed to be the sweet spot for developing both strength and muscle mass. Also, DeFranco wants trainees to do 3-5 reps on your last set -which is supposed to be your max-out set- for the max effort lift that choose to work on during your max effort day.[/quote]

The intent of the ME work isn’t to develop strength and muscle mass, but to train you on how to strain with a heavy weight. Don’t try to find a “sweet spot”. You can hit a 5rm one week and then work for a 3rm the next in order to progress.

Your current selection of ME work is not really conducive toward improving the bench press, especially if you keep returning to the same movement so frequently. If a bigger bench is your goal, use movements that improve your weaknesses in the bench. Consider something like board presses, floor presses, incline presses, close grip presses, shoulder presses, weighted dips, etc.

Take some time to strengthen your weaknesses before you come back to the flat bench.

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

The intent of the ME work isn’t to develop strength and muscle mass, but to train you on how to strain with a heavy weight. Don’t try to find a “sweet spot”. You can hit a 5rm one week and then work for a 3rm the next in order to progress. [/quote]

DeFranco says that ME work is supposed to develop strength and muscle mass. I feel that a 3RM is too heavy for me to do until I become an intermediate or close to being an intermediate. Though, I suppose I could alternate between doing a 4RM and a 5RM each week for my max lifts.

[quote] Your current selection of ME work is not really conducive toward improving the bench press, especially if you keep returning to the same movement so frequently. If a bigger bench is your goal, use movements that improve your weaknesses in the bench. Consider something like board presses, floor presses, incline presses, close grip presses, shoulder presses, weighted dips, etc.

Take some time to strengthen your weaknesses before you come back to the flat bench.
[/quote]

I get what you’re saying, but then how come in other programs like Starting Strength, you don’t rotate or even use movements that improve weaknesses in the bench such as the exercises you just mentioned above?

Bull, I am new here but I have to say you ask a lot of stupid questions. Instead of running your mouth why dont you “Seek to understand” before you “Seek to be understood” as the (ex?) CEO of Ford said several years ago.

And if you are only benching around 135 you are not strong enough for WS4SB.

Go on a damn basic program, stick with it, stop acting like you know everything and maybe you will learn something and MAYBE get stronger too.

You have no idea what you are doing. Beat that into your head and flush your obnoxous ego down the toilet.

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
And if you are only benching around 135 you are not strong enough for WS4SB.
[/quote]

?

The entire point of WS4SB is to build strength for beginner athletes.

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

The intent of the ME work isn’t to develop strength and muscle mass, but to train you on how to strain with a heavy weight. Don’t try to find a “sweet spot”. You can hit a 5rm one week and then work for a 3rm the next in order to progress. [/quote]

DeFranco says that ME work is supposed to develop strength and muscle mass. I feel that a 3RM is too heavy for me to do until I become an intermediate or close to being an intermediate. Though, I suppose I could alternate between doing a 4RM and a 5RM each week for my max lifts.

[quote] Your current selection of ME work is not really conducive toward improving the bench press, especially if you keep returning to the same movement so frequently. If a bigger bench is your goal, use movements that improve your weaknesses in the bench. Consider something like board presses, floor presses, incline presses, close grip presses, shoulder presses, weighted dips, etc.

Take some time to strengthen your weaknesses before you come back to the flat bench.
[/quote]

I get what you’re saying, but then how come in other programs like Starting Strength, you don’t rotate or even use movements that improve weaknesses in the bench such as the exercises you just mentioned above?[/quote]

Clearly what you know is not working. Instead of refuting it, look at my advice and see if you can figure out why I said what I said.

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What are your ME exercises and how often do you rotate them? Also, why are you trying for a 5rm two weeks in a row?[/quote]

It’s because he’s doing Defranco’s WS4SB program, not the regular WSB program.

OP, strength isn’t just determined by your “max effort day” stuff. If you skip the dynamic upper body workouts don’t expect to continue increasing because you are performing only half the work called for that week, and volume is important in overall increase in athleticism and strength as well in the long haul.

You basically just said “I’ll admit there were some weeks where I only did 1 day of training instead of the 3 the program calls for”. You shouldn’t be surprised if you stall doing that.[/quote]

I see what you’re saying, but last week I actually did both an entire max effort upper body day session on Mon. and an entire repetition upper body day session on Thurs., although I didn’t do any lower body sessions -not sure how much weight training the lower body matters with regards to being able to bench press more-. So, I don’t get why as of yesterday when I did a max effort upper body session, I noticed that my 5RM regular barbell bench press didn’t go up relative to last week.[/quote]

So, you think that you’re just magically supposed to progress because you happened to do both the upper body workouts last week? Are you kidding?

You have 2 workouts for upper body a week. That’s 8 in a month. You miss even 2 in a month, you’ve dropped roughly 25% of your available training stimulus and volume. WHY are you surprised you’re stuck?! Lifts go up slow enough without skipping your damn workouts.

Lifting lower body doesn’t directly help your bench. Skipping leg day is just indicative of a fundamental problem with your “training”. Namely, little heart syndrome.

Problem is, you’re not that serious about this shit. You don’t want it that bad. Otherwise you wouldn’t drop legs and your second upper body day. Punisher’s advice on switching between 3RM and 5RM is good, but it’s not going to help you decide to go the the damn gym instead of going home or going to sleep, or going to drink, or whatever.

Offtopic:

Aragorn, do you have a log or something? You had mentioned awhile back that you were using an adapted form of the layer system – far enough removed from it that you were iffy on even associating it with CTs work. I was curious about how you set that up, but not sure where to ask.

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Offtopic:

Aragorn, do you have a log or something? You had mentioned awhile back that you were using an adapted form of the layer system – far enough removed from it that you were iffy on even associating it with CTs work. I was curious about how you set that up, but not sure where to ask.[/quote]

I used to have an Indigo log, but I don’t log any more. I’m working long enough hours I don’t really have the reserve desire to log everything down :). I just use these forums for entertainment right now. I still get to the gym on average twice a day but my training has changed again to adapt to the 14 hour work days. There’s a thread in CT’s forum in which he helped me put together the current plan, although I’ve had to split the workouts into two to make sure I get it all in. One workout during lunch and one after work before evening clients. Sometimes a neural charge before work. And yep, I post from work lol.

I’ve kicked around the idea of doing on–both to keep myself accountable in the current environment I’m in and to just verbally projectile vomit on internet people anything I think about :P. But I’m just not at a point where I want to take time to update the thing regularly.

I might be able to dig it up and post it for you, since PMs don’t work.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
So, you think that you’re just magically supposed to progress because you happened to do both the upper body workouts last week? Are you kidding?

You have 2 workouts for upper body a week. That’s 8 in a month. You miss even 2 in a month, you’ve dropped roughly 25% of your available training stimulus and volume. WHY are you surprised you’re stuck?! Lifts go up slow enough without skipping your damn workouts.

Lifting lower body doesn’t directly help your bench. Skipping leg day is just indicative of a fundamental problem with your “training”. Namely, little heart syndrome.

Problem is, you’re not that serious about this shit. You don’t want it that bad. Otherwise you wouldn’t drop legs and your second upper body day. Punisher’s advice on switching between 3RM and 5RM is good, but it’s not going to help you decide to go the the damn gym instead of going home or going to sleep, or going to drink, or whatever.
[/quote]

Concur with this as well. Some folks could get away with training less, but the TC is not one of those people.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
I might be able to dig it up and post it for you, since PMs don’t work.[/quote]

That would be great. No rush at all though. And if you don’t, that’s fine too.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

So, you think that you’re just magically supposed to progress because you happened to do both the upper body workouts last week? Are you kidding?

You have 2 workouts for upper body a week. That’s 8 in a month. You miss even 2 in a month, you’ve dropped roughly 25% of your available training stimulus and volume. WHY are you surprised you’re stuck?! Lifts go up slow enough without skipping your damn workouts.

Lifting lower body doesn’t directly help your bench. Skipping leg day is just indicative of a fundamental problem with your “training”. Namely, little heart syndrome.

Problem is, you’re not that serious about this shit. You don’t want it that bad. Otherwise you wouldn’t drop legs and your second upper body day. Punisher’s advice on switching between 3RM and 5RM is good, but it’s not going to help you decide to go the the damn gym instead of going home or going to sleep, or going to drink, or whatever.
[/quote]

It’s just that I thought that according to DeFranco, your PRs are supposed to go up every week.

[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

So, you think that you’re just magically supposed to progress because you happened to do both the upper body workouts last week? Are you kidding?

You have 2 workouts for upper body a week. That’s 8 in a month. You miss even 2 in a month, you’ve dropped roughly 25% of your available training stimulus and volume. WHY are you surprised you’re stuck?! Lifts go up slow enough without skipping your damn workouts.

Lifting lower body doesn’t directly help your bench. Skipping leg day is just indicative of a fundamental problem with your “training”. Namely, little heart syndrome.

Problem is, you’re not that serious about this shit. You don’t want it that bad. Otherwise you wouldn’t drop legs and your second upper body day. Punisher’s advice on switching between 3RM and 5RM is good, but it’s not going to help you decide to go the the damn gym instead of going home or going to sleep, or going to drink, or whatever.
[/quote]

It’s just that I thought that according to DeFranco, your PRs are supposed to go up every week.
[/quote]
You are a waste of time, energy, and effort.

You are such an awful waste of time for this forum, and everyone that contributes to this forum that no one should answer you. Not only that, but you don’t even take the advice seriously.

Furthermore, you don’t even train, or have ANY heart. I have a total of 1.5 hour commute for school, anywhere between 3-5 (3 being the absolute minimum at any time) hours of homework a day, and 8 hours of school. I make the time to train TWICE a day, once to get an extra workout in the AM, and the other for my main session (ME/DE or conditioning). Let’s say I train 1.5 hours a day that would be a total of 14-16 hours used up already. I also cook ALL of my food, and eat six times a day to fit in 4600+ calories in.

Now, what is your excuse? And another question, do you even think you deserve progress if I you can only get 1 probably half assed session in a day? Look at my stats, then the work I mentioned there that does not account for studying.

In the end you will likely look for another excuse. That is what this paragraph is for. I had just gotten a 100% on my math EXAM today, so your grades should be no excuse. The only legitimate excuse you have is that you are a pussy who will not put in the work needed for anything, and will never be great at anything.