T Nation

Not Paying Income Tax


#1

I have heard that if I write the IRS and ask what law states that I have to pay taxes they will just ignore it. So I asked, and they never got back to me. I am trying to get literature from the save a patriot foundation but due to litigation they can't disperse any information that is relevant. Any tax lawyers out there that can help me figure out if I have to actually pay taxes?

I have tried to read about the USA v. Kuglin using Black's law dictionary to help, but legal jargon is not my thing.

The reason I ask is because since I read the Grace Commission Report I have decided I don't want my hard earned money going to private lenders to pay off a debt because the government hasn't had fiscal responsibility since everything got turned over to International Monetary Fund and the Federal Reserve in the early 1900's.


#2

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html


#3

"But, indeed, no private person has a right to complain, by suit in court, on the ground of a breach of the Constitution. The Constitution it is true, is a compact, but he is not a party to it." Padelford, Fay & Co., vs. Mayor and Aldermen of the City of Savannah 14 Ga. 438, 52

How can I breach the Constitution if I am not part of it? Like I said, laws, statues, and codes aren't my thing.


#4

Just pay your taxes like every other grow adult with a brain and save the massive amount of money you are looking to piss away on legal fees.

You will lose in court. Trust me.

Much smarter men than you or I have come before us. They have already thought this through and through.


#5

I am a tax attorney AND I've researched a lot of these so-called "tax protestor" arguments because they are so amusing. Basically, their arguments boil down to a ridiculous and hypertechnical reading of the Code and a complete lack of knowledge of how to read a statute. Many of the guys who promoted these arguments are serving jail time for criminal tax evasion. Try any of these schemes and not only will you owe the taxes, interest, and penalties for failure to pay on time, the Tax Court will assess an additional penalty for filing a frivolous argument (assuming you try any of this nonsense and your case ends up in court).

My favorite reaction by a Tax Court judge was when one of these idiots claimed that he didn't have to pay taxes because he was not a citizen of the United States but only a citizen of the State of Arizona. The judge said that, in that case, he would call immigration to begin deportation proceedings. The guy was dumb enough to believe him and he kept quiet the rest of his trial.

You may also want to read this - it is written for the layperson and the IRS gives it out to anyone filing frivolous returns (your letter isn't considered a return which is why they had no duty to respond to you in any way). Don't dismiss it just because the IRS wrote it and they have a vested interest in collecting taxes. Courts consider this authoritative and have relied on it in rejecting every frivolous argument out there.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf


#6

You should read this. Don't dismiss it just because it's an IRS Publication and the IRS has a vested interest in collecting taxes. Courts consider this authoritative and have relied on this pub to reject all of the frivolous arguments.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/friv_tax.pdf


#7

The constitution referred to in the quote is not the U.S. constitution, but rather the Georgia constitution which had as its parties delegates of Georgia and the state itself. Thus, individuals were not party to THAT constitution.

The U.S. constitution is a binding agreement between the citizens and the federal government.


#8

Thanks for the succint and educative response.


#9

If you don't pay your taxes, you are an idiot...anyone that tells you that you don't have to pay taxes is an even bigger idiot...like Beans said, if you have to go on the internet and ask others how to avoid paying your taxes, you are nowhere near smart enough to figure out how not to pay taxes...


#10

No need to be an ass-douche, as I already stated that laws and such wasn't my thing. Looks like you are nowhere near smart enough to be nice instead of rude. Remember: Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer

But on the bright side, good thing I have always paid my taxes, maybe I am at least smart enough to try and do research before I make a decision.


#11

Common sense sometimes goes further than research...and no need to get your panties in a wad, I was speaking in generalizations, not directly at you...but obviously I struck a nerve...


#12

and resorting to name calling and swearing, Mr. Hoffer would be very proud...maybe your mommy can still do your taxes for you?


#13

lol I must say I'm laughing at the whole idea... "hmmm what if you DON'T really have to pay taxes... did anyone think of this before??? Shit, I could afford all kinds of nifty stuff... better log on to a bodybuilding site and do some research."

:slight_smile:


#14

It doesn't sound like generalizations when you use the word 'you' repeatedly in response to a question I ask.

I was just curious as to why I have to pay taxes when I am an employee of a corporation that already pays taxes on the profit that I bring in. I always try and learn when it comes to benefiting myself... hence the reason I asked for the responses of tax lawyers.


#15

Because your salary is an expense to them.

They don't actually pay taxes on your wages outside of social security and medicare.


#16

My brother had his account frozen for not paying taxes. My dad was audited twice, and got off twice. Moral of the story, my brother is not as smart as my dad was.


#17

Own multiple businesses and declare "losses" each year. I have a friend who is a very successful Realtor who makes ~$3000 on paper every year. Find an accountant who understands how to navigate the "grey area" of tax law (but expect to pay him ALMOST as much as you would have in taxes).

Bottom line, if you are a W-2 employee, forget about it. If you are a business owner you have some wiggle room. But don't complain for getting your ass handed to you if/when you get audited.

Question: why do you think that you "shouldn't" have to pay taxes? Do you not enjoy the economic benefits of living in the United States? Do you not benefit from the safety and security our military provides? THAT SHIT AIN'T FREE. If you don't pay taxes, then why should I have to pay for YOU? By your logic, you should just GTFO.

While I agree that our tax system is bullshit and IMHO needs to be overhauled, I still recognize the need for everyone to be taxed. Roads and bridges don't repair themselves. Armies don't just assemble and protect us for free. Why WOULDN'T you want to pay your share? We live in a REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY. That means that YOU elected the mutherfucker that is spending your tax money un-wisely. If you have that much of a problem with it. Become a political activist and get the message out to not elect a certain congressman again. That would have a far greater impact than just refusing to pay taxes. That will ultimately just land you in jail.


#18

Because I don't have to.

Not paying taxes is illegal, avoiding paying taxes by a legal avenue is the way to go. Get yourself a good tax guy and no, H&R block isn't good. Might cost a bit, but, I'd rather my dime goes into 1-2 peoples pocket to pay their bills or whatever, then go into the bureaucracy that is our government. Believe me, for the rest of my life I'll try my damned hardest to not pay the government a single cent in taxes.


#19

Not sure how old you are, but that isn't going to be easy, and it will, at times, be more expensive than just paying some tax.

I have clients that will spend $.95 to save a $1. I have other clients that plan and act appropriately and pay 19% on a $35m AGI yearly.

I agree with AC ultimately. The better course of action is to get involved and try and get your voice heard, because fucking with the IRS just isn't going to go over well. They have the resources to spend 18 weeks pouring through every transaction for the last 5 years to come up with a $20k adjustment. The professional fees, interest, penalties and possible jail time are much much much more expensive than the tax.

Irrelevant of how happy you are on what they piss your money away on, when it comes down to it, if you have a family particularly, risking your freedom for 15-30% of your income is a tough choice.


#20

While I disagree with the income tax and its legality, if you don't pay, you're effing retarded.