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Not Making Significant Progress. Genetic Limit?

10 lbs muscle only with no fat gain is alot.

You need much more than 4000 calories, I would bump it up 500 every 2 weeks or so. Also double check to make sure you are calculating your calories correctly. All things considered you obviously stay lean pretty easy, or are a workout freak, either way you may not see significant muscle gain until you reach 5, 6 maybe even 7k calories, or your metabolism slows.

You also need to pump up more not sure how long you’re doing mad cow, but a high rep approach for a while would help.

10 lbs muscle only with no fat gain is alot.

You need much more than 4000 calories, I would bump it up 500 every 2 weeks or so. Also double check to make sure you are calculating your calories correctly. All things considered you obviously stay lean pretty easy, or are a workout freak, either way you may not see significant muscle gain until you reach 5, 6 maybe even 7k calories, or your metabolism slows.

You also need to pump up more not sure how long you’re doing mad cow, but a high rep approach for a while would help.

10 lbs muscle only with no fat gain is alot.

You need much more than 4000 calories, I would bump it up 500 every 2 weeks or so. Also double check to make sure you are calculating your calories correctly. All things considered you obviously stay lean pretty easy, or are a workout freak, either way you may not see significant muscle gain until you reach 5, 6 maybe even 7k calories, or your metabolism slows.

You also need to pump up more not sure how long you’re doing mad cow, but a high rep approach for a while would help.

I’m not saying I want to gain muscle without gaining fat. We all know this is pretty much impossible while training naturally on normal genetics.

What I was saying is they said that at this point if I want to gain 20lbs of muscle, I will have to gain 40-60lbs of fat with it

I was so shocked and depressed hearing this that I decided to ask here.

About the volume training, that stuff didn’t work one single bit for me at all. Strength routines are definitely what I respond best to

I don’t really do cardio by the way, I’m conflicted by its supposed merit/value. I do grapple once a week with a friend who is really into grappling so that’s some cardio and I walk around a lot and stand up a lot at work.

Have never attempted to cut since I don’t really see the point in getting extremely lean when you have not built any muscle. I have no idea about my bf% but I’m more concerned with strength and size at the moment

I’m not sure where you got those fat vs. muscle figures but they are inaccurate. Follow the advise here ramping up your calories while maintaining a food log. As already stated your metabolism is substantial you will probably end up way higher on calories just to gain at all. I really won’t be half fat either. You got workout and nutrition advice from Synergy upthread. Take it. Follow it. Report back in six months.

[quote]John94563 wrote:
Have never attempted to cut since I don’t really see the point in getting extremely lean when you have not built any muscle. I have no idea about my bf% but I’m more concerned with strength and size at the moment[/quote]

LOL @ ‘getting extremely lean’ comment.
You are very lean compared to most lifters during their ‘offseason/bulking’ period. Most of the everyday guys would gladly trade places with you any day. I applaude your desire to ‘push harder’ in your attempt to maximise your genetics. IMO step number one having a realistic perspective about leanness. In your photo; you are all abs in (without cardio you say!). It is very difficult for most lifters to gain much muscle(if any) while in that condition. I believe you are going to have to add bodyweight to progress. Your six-pac may turn into a two-pac, but you should be able to add weight to all your lifts. Set a reasonable max. of about twenty-five pounds over your lean weight of 190. Get to 210-215 and maintain that bodyweight for at least a year…I like eighteen months better. Evaluate progress.

Eat more food and gain more weight…with strength comes size but with size comes strength as well.

More strength doesn’t mean inherently more size bunny.

Improve your chest and you will gain 10 lbs

I find it hard to figure out what to eat to get to 4500kcal without taking in unhealthy amounts of protein.

I used to eat mostly stuff like chicken breast + rice and some weightgainer shakes. But these meals are so high in protein as it is so how do I get to 4500kcal without going overboard with the protein?

[quote]John94563 wrote:
I find it hard to figure out what to eat to get to 4500kcal without taking in unhealthy amounts of protein.

I used to eat mostly stuff like chicken breast + rice and some weightgainer shakes. But these meals are so high in protein as it is so how do I get to 4500kcal without going overboard with the protein?

[/quote]

What do you mean by ‘unhealthy’ amounts of protein? I think it’s easier to think about it in terms of intake required for dieting, maintenance or growth.

Read these short but very helpful LiveSpills by nutrition grandmaster, Shelby Starnes. Hope they help.

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/579

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/609

So according to Shelby, if you’re trying to gain you should be consuming anywhere between 285 to 380 gms a day.

[quote]jjahls wrote:

[quote]John94563 wrote:
I find it hard to figure out what to eat to get to 4500kcal without taking in unhealthy amounts of protein.

I used to eat mostly stuff like chicken breast + rice and some weightgainer shakes. But these meals are so high in protein as it is so how do I get to 4500kcal without going overboard with the protein?

[/quote]

What do you mean by ‘unhealthy’ amounts of protein? I think it’s easier to think about it in terms of intake required for dieting, maintenance or growth.

Read these short but very helpful LiveSpills by nutrition grandmaster, Shelby Starnes. Hope they help.

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/579

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/609

So according to Shelby, if you’re trying to gain you should be consuming anywhere between 285 to 380 gms a day. [/quote]
285-380grams of protein just seems outrageous and obscene

i’m trying to go with 200-250

are you supposed to count only animal sources or any protein ?

i’m experimenting with nuts and raisins for extra kcal

[quote]John94563 wrote:

[quote]jjahls wrote:

[quote]John94563 wrote:
I find it hard to figure out what to eat to get to 4500kcal without taking in unhealthy amounts of protein.

I used to eat mostly stuff like chicken breast + rice and some weightgainer shakes. But these meals are so high in protein as it is so how do I get to 4500kcal without going overboard with the protein?

[/quote]

What do you mean by ‘unhealthy’ amounts of protein? I think it’s easier to think about it in terms of intake required for dieting, maintenance or growth.

Read these short but very helpful LiveSpills by nutrition grandmaster, Shelby Starnes. Hope they help.

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/579

http://www.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/609

So according to Shelby, if you’re trying to gain you should be consuming anywhere between 285 to 380 gms a day. [/quote]
285-380grams of protein just seems outrageous and obscene

i’m trying to go with 200-250

are you supposed to count only animal sources or any protein ?

i’m experimenting with nuts and raisins for extra kcal[/quote]

If your personal upper limit for protein intake is 250 gms a day, why not add 35 more grams and check your progress. If you’re using a protein supplement like Optimum Whey you’ll get about 1500 kcal just from the 285 gm of calories (assuming your protein intake is just from supplements). That still leaves you a lot of room for calories from other food sources. If you haven’t been growing on your current intake wouldn’t it make sense to adjust your protein intake + calorie intake and gauge from there?

I also agree with everyone else on this thread that you should start logging what you eat and weigh yourself periodically; then you’ll know whether or not what you’re eating is working to help you grow. I would even go so far as to log how much you’re sleeping every night.

SQUATS AND MILK!

@John94563
You presented your ‘dilemma’.
Some people in this thread have gone out of their way to give you crucial pointers.

That’s all there is to it.
Now it’s time to re-evaluate your goal (‘Am I ready to temporarily sacrifice a bit of conditioning to make serious muscle gains?)’ and commit yourself to it using all the info given you in here.

Maybe you’ll have to course-correct a bit on the way, but that shouldn’t be a problem.
And you can always consult with people who’ve been there, done that.

No big deal.

Good luck, have fun, go kick some ass.

[quote]John94563 wrote:
285-380grams of protein just seems outrageous and obscene

i’m trying to go with 200-250

are you supposed to count only animal sources or any protein ?

i’m experimenting with nuts and raisins for extra kcal[/quote]

Protein is protein, assuming you’re not using a single source that’s deficient in some essential amino acid. Protein shakes highly recommended, also for upping calories since liquid is easier to put down than solid food.

If you aren’t gaining, it’s because you aren’t eating enough, as has been said multiple times. It’s not rocket science. Eat more, sleep more, lift heavier.