T Nation

Not Making Significant Progress. Genetic Limit?


#1


I'm 6' 190lbs on a good day. Can drop back 4-5lbs for no obvious reason

I'm thinking if I'm not making real gains now, why would I assume I will have made reazl gains in 10 years time

Everybody is always telling me I'm making progress but they're delusional, the scale doesn't lie

current best lifts are

3 x 162.5kg high bar full squat without belt or knee support
5 x 190kg deadlift with double overhand grip and straps (double overhand without straps the hands only hold out with 5x165kg)
2x120kg bench press with controlled descent and pauze at chest

daily kcal intake around 3500kcal, protein 200-250grams, water 6 litres a day

training program "5x5 madcow intermediate"

I'm basically wondering what kind of gains I can hope to achieve without anabolics, which I don't intend on using no matter what.


#2

Yep you've reached your genetic limit, pack up your stuff, go home and retire :slight_smile:


On a serious note, what's stopping you push your bodyweight up more? Increase protein? etc

For someone like yourself who's lean and tall, you can afford to be pushing the calories up by quite some degree. If the scale isn't budging, at best, you are probably eating just enough at times, but not enough at other times.

Don't just depend on some calculation, study, or whatever intake worked in the past...things need to be tweaked. You need to one step ahead of your body (which tries to keep homeostasis).

Remember when you first started? Eating a little extra and training for the first time gave great results - because the body wasn't used to it. You made quick gains. Now that you've grown more muscle, it needs more calories/protein not only to maintain the extra muscle (which is metabolically costly), but also you need extra calories on top of that to BUILD muscle.

3500 cals/day for someone your height/leaness is not THAT much (not even for a sedentary individual). Same for protein; for most people when they get to a certain point, just over 1g protein per lb in bodyweight just won't work while trying to gain muscle.


#3

i'm calling troll here. if that is you, that lean at 190lbs, you know your shit and how your body responds.

Quit stealing a pic from wherever and writing some BS i can't gain shit.

Bump your carbs/protein/fat and frequency of feedings up, start eating even more, if you go to the gym 5-6 days a week, cut it back to 4 days, not rocket science. who ever that is in the picture, assuming not you, has the potential for more size!!!!!

this site blows dick lately.


#4

If you're not gaining weight, eat more. I wonder if someone wrote a thesis about this because apparently it's rocket science.


#5

I'm nearly your size, not as strong. It takes me WAY more than 3.5kcals per day to gain.

I almost agree with the person who called troll, largely because anyone even at the intermediate level knows that if the scale isn't budging, there's only one thing that would explain it. And if you don't want to eat extra, then just become happy with your current size and don't make posts about it.


#6

I'm 5' 10" @ 200lb and I diet/cut at 3,200 cal/day. At your height and weight you need to start at 4,200 to gain and may have to go up from there. You are at least 30lbs from a decent goal for a lifter your height. The reason(s) for your plateau are not genetic.


#7

Nice desk.


#8

Very solid and basic advice.

Start here and adjust as you go.

There's a "nutritional progression," just as there is a, "physical progression" in the weight room.

You need to locate your nutritional sweet spot, which allows you to continue to add scale weight and bar weight.

How do you find this?
1. Keep a nutrition log for a month straight and do whatever you can to not deviate from this. This will give you an honest inventory of your true eating habits, as well as identify where you can improve, based upon your body composition goals
2.. Keep a training log...."beat the book" whenever possible. That doesn't always mean, hitting higher top numbers (yours are pretty solid for a 190 lb. guy, BUT improving absolute strength will ALWAYS lead to better gains), but can mean any number of performance improvements:
1. Increase in rep quality
2. Increase in overall volume (mechanical loading), WITHOUT hampering recovery
**Personally, I believe this to be at the top of the list, in order to make solid lean mass and strength gains
3. Increased in work capacity (the harder and longer you can workout, the more profound "reason" you give your body to adapt and grow
4. Increased mental focus during workouts...this is often overlooked. Your goal should be to "stay between your ears" each workout and not let yourself daydream or pay too much attention to what's going on around you at the gym. Trust me, nothing is going on, which will lead to a better workout....most people are just there "putting in their time."

I find that if you can progress in two of these areas EVERY WORKOUT (based upon your last workout...which you will have a detailed training log of, if you implement #2 above).

And the list goes on and on


#9

pretty offensive post


#10

So today I increased my kcal intake to 4000. (a 500kcal increase) hopefully this helps

I know that when you eat enough you will gain bodyweight, but not necessarily a worthwhile ratio between fat and muscle

I basically started this thread because I got pretty depressed when somebody told me at this point I can only hope to gain another 10lbs in the next several years and that's pretty much the genetic limit and I will gain more fat than muscle while doing so

There is usually one meal a day which I eat with my family (dinner) and it is the only one which I have to estimate the kcal value of. I usually give it a 500kcal estimate, which is probably a definite under-estimate.

These meals would be things like steak with french fries, fish with mashed potato, spaghetti bolognesa etc. Basically normal pretty decent food

Rest of my meals are highly monitored

Maybe I should stop having one non-measured meal? But I figure as long as I under-estimate its caloric worth it wouldn't be a problem. Don't want to be too anti social by refusing to have a normal meal once a day


#11

I have to admit I am sometimes guilty of this. A lot of people will bother me at the gym asking for advice "talking about training" and stuff

especially when i meet up with my workout partner, that guy can never shut up about the ifbb pros, supplements and steroids to the point it's distracting. on the other hand he's the only guy I can rely on for a proper spot on the bench

maybe I should confront him about it


#12

I'd say 4000 is the bear minimum, if it were up to me, I'd bump it to 4500 if you've been at that weight for ages (gives you some leeway too for days where you may not eat as much). Don't be afraid to increase your dietary fat to help get in the calories easier.

Yeah gains do slow down, but you still need to eat for it. Gains may not be as lean, but that's the price you pay for being a natty who's made decent progress. You'll look even better being 20lbs heavier even when your gains are fatter.

Example:

Let's say you're 10% bf - if you gained 30lbs, and half of it was fat (worse case scenario), you'd still be under 15% bodyfat (and still look really good at 220lbs...most people over that weight look pretty solid when at 15% or under).

^^^
That's bearing in mind that so many people underestimate the bodyfat they have. So if you were 220lbs at 13-15% bodyfat, you may only LOOK around 10% to the average lifter. It's not precise but hopefully you get the picture :slight_smile:


#13

Under no circumstance should you stop eating the family meal. Great stuff happens there all the time, and you don't want to miss it!


#14

sarcasm?


#15

Whoever told you that you'll only be able to gain another 10 lbs before you reach your genetic potential is an absolute moron. Slap them in the face.


#16

I doubt it. I don't want to speak for the man, but I imagine that someone with the wisdom of his years advocating a family meal goes well and above "measured" out food.

It doesn't matter if you eat the same food they do or not, sit down with your family and eat. Because unless you have a family full of drunks and dysfunctional bozos, you should spend some time with them. You'll never get that time back, and when you're old and gray you'll regret missing that time.


#17

Not only that, but home cooked meals should be where real eating happens. I don't know how my family was vs others but there were BIG ASS steaks, mashed potatoes, and other good foods available for me almost every night. That's where size is built. :S

Also, like LiquidMercury said, the dude who told you 'you can only gain 10 pounds' is a stupid jackoff. How could anyone possibly know this kind on information... what is he, Powder?


#18

Also, you want to gain weight, cutting out a large regular meal is not the weigh to go. Maybe it would be an idea to get an extra serving at the meal?

Also you're doing well man. Try not to idolate yourself from people with the whole BB lifestyle if possible. It's weird enough taking supps and eating loads of meat always when other people are on 'whatever comes out of the vending machine at work'.


#19

No sarcasm! I like how CBeans put it....."well and above measured out food".


#20

OH, So you want to gain muscle WITHOUT GAINING FAT?