T Nation

Not Feeling Good After One Year on Test E

I’ve been on 1200mg test e PER WEEK for a year solid pretty much after starting on 500 and moving up. That’s a year with no breaks blasting at 1200

Nothing else taken at all. Felt great most of the year but now not feeling great… I’d say last two months I’ve seen negative sides in mood and bad acne which is scarring my shoulders. I’m too embarrassed to have a vest on in the gym as it’s a blatant sign I’m not natty

Having done things backwards as usual I’m doing the deeper research now rather than a year ago when I started jabbing my butt

Slight chest pains. Shy of seeing my GP but know I need to get bloodwork done and engage in harm reduction

My initial idea was to do TRT self amdinstered mainly for mood benefits as I have good genetics physically and was already in good shape but now it just feels like I’m A bit off the track with it all

Not feeling good mentally. Having regular personal bests in the gym and in great shape I guess put on a stone from natty body building weight. Now at 94kg , six foot tall

Feeling miserable and concerned about it all and hoping for some guidance and support

No attacks please. I’m already aware I’ve been a cock

Come off the test since you don’t feel good on it.

Ok I should state clearly that I don’t want to come off test however I want to understand how to manage whatever it is causing my change in mood …

I’ve had many positive changes since using test e however recently I’ve noticed negatives such as acne and mood issues , lethargy and depression

I will be coming down in dosage though but I’d rather find out how to fix this without stopping and losing gains and other positive effects whilst also trying to be healthy

I am putting off a visit to my GP for fear of being judged. I’ve had no blood work done and no idea if the 12 months of 1200 test e has caused any damage

I mean… you look pretty sick from the looks of your avatar.

Have you had bloods, echocardiogram/cardiac imaging performed?

No… you need more than bloodwork, you need cardiac imaging if you’re symptomatic. Come clean to you’re GP otherwise he/she might think “nah, there’s no reason to suspect cardiac ailment”.

Most tend to be inherently unaware of the fact that over time AAS predispose one to sudden death. It’s not a guaranteed outcome, however the higher the dose, the longer the duration and the worse you’re genetics/lifestyle the more likely this outcome is. Tell me, do you drink/use any substances of recreation? Do you regularly employ aerobic exercise within your routine?

Statistically chances are you’re fine, you’ve only been on (albiet a high dose) for a year… plenty use high dosages for decades (30 years +) on end before they drop. Though if you haven’t monitored bloods, you may very well have polycythemia, be at risk for stroking out if HCT is above 60%

I don’t think anyone is going to attack you here, you’ve done nothing immoral.

You should want to decrease the dosage, using 1200mg year round forever is stupid, and will lead to you having a premature death. That’s a given, not fear mongering. You DON’T need 1200mg weekly to feel good unless you’ve got PAIS, which you almost certainly don’t… guys get away with it… but not forever, I don’t think anyone on 1200mg thinks “I’m going to be on this for the rest of my life”. Some may use for years, especially competitive bodybuilders and/or strength athletes, but such a dose is not suitable for long term usage.

The shitty mood is likely due to deleterious neurological alteration/net neurotoxicity induced by prolonged usage. Be very sure this is what you want. I don’t think you quite understand what you’re getting yourself into here. 1200mg weekly isn’t a harm reductionist strategy even with blood work… not by a long shot.

You’ve potentially got a dangerously high HCT, and if you feel

  • depressed
  • lethargic
  • prone to mood swings

for god sakes think about you’re priorities, is it really worth feeling like shit the whole time? Drop the dosage… Did you have labs prior to TRT, if they were normal you could come off. How old are you? Depending on you’re age you could run TRT or “enhanced” trt… what you’re doing right now isn’t healthy at all, you’re getting chest pains yet you’re still not going to the doctor… You’d be better off using actual drugs than behaving like this (not really, I’m making an exaggeration to prove my point). Whilst this dose year round + monitoring isn’t “safe”… it’s a hell of a lot better than flying blind like you currently are.

If you were a competitive strongman like @flipcollar it’d make sense to use this year round… I brought flip collar in because I wish to indirectly ask him if he gets bloods, whether most competitors at the top level get bloods/ are monitored regularly (esp for say extreme water cuts). I also wish to know whether competitors drop dead with regularity. It is of my opinion that most within the top level aside from excellent genetics have the ability to withstand higher dosages of performance enhancing drugs without serious repercussion (even then, they don’t know for certain… not without regular cardiac imaging etc). The average Joe can’t take 5-8 grams weekly

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Not gonna happen. Come off the gear.

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Is that even sensible after so long at that dose I fear my depression and mood will worsen. Totally coming off is not an option. Please don’t repeat yourself so that I have to also

Why not? Give a rational answer as to why not. There are risks you’re not thinking about

  • long term fertility
  • cardiac
  • neurological
  • haematological

It’s MORE than sensible to come off if you’re at the point wherein the gear is having a significant net effect on you’re psyche

If you wish to play with TRT… use 150-200mg weekly, 250mg weekly if you wish to push it with “enhanced” TRT. You’re not a competitive athlete, strongman… but for whatever reason you’ve justified using 1200mg year round… When we say “drop the dose”… we aren’t talking about “drop from 1200-700mg or 1200-500mg” as such a dose will still induce long term detriment. I can and will link literature showcasing the hearts of those who use 600-1000mg test equiv over long periods of time

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Thanks a lot for your detailed response it’s much appreciated. I will read fully when I get home but skimming over this I think I agree with what your saying, I need to have some tests done and reduce my dosage… should I consider HCG or any other PCT and how much lower should my test e dosage go to? Etc

You don’t need PCT if you aren’t coming off…

This is what you’re looking at if you decide to use 1200mg forever. Granted these studies tend to be somewhat flawed as they don’t differentiate between say primo and tren… just as one should differentiate between caffeine and heroin.

These ailments probably don’t apply to most minor users, I also believe within many of these studies people lie about the extent of their use… many do, nonetheless it still pertains significance to you’re particular situation given I you want to stay on 1200mg forever

Why can’t you go off? If you have a legitimate reason as to why you can’t… start with 150-200mg… but you need bloods, there’s a good chance you’re HCT, RBC and haemoglobin will be very, very high… in which case you’d need a doctors ordered therapeutic phlebotomy (or a few of them)… otherwise you legitimately risk stroking out

You’ve probably got extensive AR, neurological dysregulation at this point… using 1200mg weekly for over a year without monitoring and absent of competitive prospects wasn’t the smartest idea to begin with. Over time gains do taper off wherein there’s no real point at continually running said dosage other than

  • maintenance
  • because you feel good

and you don’t feel good anymore

Running HCG is common even with people on TRT dosages that’s why I mentioned it , it’s PCT but also people run it whilst on.

I have no intention of staying on 1200 a week forever and nowhere did I mention this in my opening thread

the purpose of my intentions is to STOP at this dose of 1200 after having done it for nearly a year

I’ve had great time for 10 months both physically and emotionally so it’s not balanced for me to want to completely STOP EVERYTHING

10 out of 12 months feeling great. Now I need to watch my health as I’ve admitted I let this get out of control so I’m looking to COME DOWN and not OFF

I want a sustainable dose that’s healthy and would consider blasting moderately from time to time perhaps every 12 weeks

I am also considering HCG along side a new LOW dose of test but need advice

I’m thinking a dose somewhere in between TRT and a cruise dose with perhaps HCG

No need for an AI if I’m lowering everything this week I imagine my estrogen and acne will start to recover ??

I think that most competitors do get bloodwork, but I’d guess it’s not as regularly as they probably should. Myself included. I used to do it once or twice every cycle, but since I’ve gotten so much bloodwork in the past and I think I have a handle on what drugs/amounts affect me negatively, I’ve gotten away from that. I generally only get bloodwork now around once a year for maintenance, and then also if I’m trying something new or if I feel off.

The only monitoring you can really do during a water cut is blood pressure and heart rate. I have numbers I am not willing to exceed on those. I will keep them to myself :slight_smile: basically they are below the ‘danger go straight to a hospital’ level… but barely.

No. Absolutely not. We have like 1 example in strongman history of this happening. Jon Pall Sigmarsson. There are probably other guys out there whose deaths long term could be related to the drug use/sport, but I can’t think of any off the top of my head. Obviously it’s more common in bodybuilding, but recreational drugs are also more of a ‘thing’ in that sport, so it obscures any data we could potentially collect. Their sport is also much harder on their bodies with as lean as they get, and their long periods of suffering to get there. A lot of stress.

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100%, SUPPOSEDLY fitness models/bodybuilders are into certain stimulants as cutting aids… tremendous strain on the heart… then there’s high dose GH, beta 2 agonists, DNP (this is probably one of the worst offenders). Then there’s the fact that many bodybuilders lie about their drug use.

I firmly believe prior to Rich Pianas death (although with a heart that size he was a ticking timebomb) he had a drug problem. In some of his videos he appeared to be under the influence of narcotics. Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if he had an opiate + stimulant problem.

There’s also the crash dieting, diuretics… I do believe AAS alone induce direct myocardial injury, though for those who aren’t particularly predisposed the human body can get away with a lot of abuse

When you start combining say high dose AAS with cocaine, heavy abuse of amphetamines etc you’re looking at serious risk though. I believe Mike Mentzer died so young as a byproduct of his addiction to amphetamines + heavy gear usage

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Died deadlifting after saying “There is no reason to be alive if you can’t do deadlift”.

I believe he also said before dying that he did not think he would live to be 40 as his father and grandfather (IIRC might have been his older brother) died before reaching 40 due to heart issues.

So below 180/120… HR below say 190… ehh, for 15 minutes I highly doubt you’ll die. It’s not “safe”, but from 15-30 minutes the chances of it killing you… the human body is remarkably resilient. If you were to put yourself in such a state for 30 minutes, every day for 10 years the story would differ.

have you ever had cardiac imaging taken (echocardiogram/MRI)

I would encourage you to drop to TRT levels if you are not going to PCT. Top of the range is about 250 mg/wk. You should be able to maintain a good amount of muscle on that dose if the work is there. Mood should be pretty good to.

Use HCG if you are planning on trying for children, or plan to TRT for a while then PCT.

What I am personally doing is running “enhanced” trt as Unreal would say at (235 mg/wk). I have HCG, but I am not currently using it. I have around 22,000 IU on hand. If in a few years I want children (I am not sure as I don’t want them now at the age of 32) I will start using HCG at like 300 IU 3X a week for 6 months prior to trying to conceive. I am not giving this as advice, but this is what my plans are.

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Can you freeze some high fructose porn syrup before reaching a state of azoospermia? Or is this prospect out of the window

I have been on TRT over a year now. As I am sure you know most (99% ish) of men on TRT/AAS blast and cruise eventually become fertile without any drugs (might be two years though). With drugs they come back faster (usually fertile in 6 months).

I am not sure at all about kids though. I am not going to have them assuming I will want them in the future (I will have to want them consistently for a while before committing to kids). I am 32, I am assuming if I make it to say 38 and don’t want kids, that I probably won’t ever want them (who knows though).

It is not PCT, some use it up until starting PCT, but shouldn’t be used as PCT.

It is however used during TRT for guys hoping to maintain fertility, plump your nuts up for aesthetic purposes, or I believe some folks with aching or discomfort from atrophy in their scrotum sometimes find benefit from it.

You’re clearly dead set on not coming off, even though you haven’t given a single answer as to why, which is fine. But listen to these guys and go the TRT route and you can blast few times a year.

The better question is how you’re so small on 1200mg of Test for 12 months.

Hey dude, thanks for your response… I’m 34 and have one little one and will want more kids for sure, perhaps then I don’t need HCG until I’m ready… I’ve ready here and there that its great for mood on cycle though…