T Nation

Not Eligible for TRT at 398


#1

I need some advice guys. I had my lab work done to see if I am eligible for testosterone replacement therapy last week. my labs show a testosterone level of 398. The cutoff for therapy is 350. I'm scheduled to have blood redrawn next week. Besides not working out; is there a way to decrease my test levels to make the 350 limit? Any help will be appreciated.


#2

Take in no cholesterol four days out, drink a lot of beer, get hardly any sleep the night before, and jerk off as much as possible the night before took from 320 to 240.


#3

Is that really how you want to go about it? If its not horrific, why not find a good doctor that can attempt a restart rather than intentionally damaging your body, and then hopping on TRT and shutting yourself down entirely?

Why anyone would want to hop on TRT for life when they have a chance at a restart, or have not dialed in their sleep, nutrition, supplementation, stress management, etc is beyond me.

In addition I never heard of a cut off number...so if you really are desperate just to get TRT you can doctor shop and someone will hook you up eventually with those numbers as long as you complain about symptoms enough, or you can always try the Florida anti-aging clinics who seem to basically be pay to play and get you TRT and then some that regular TRT docs would NEVER do (like oxandrolone and nandrolone).


#4

That cut off number is where your insurance cuts you off.You can still pay yourself. And at that level, as has already been said. There are other options to try to up your own T production. You did not mention your age the younger the better for a restart. And while I feel a lot better self injecting testosterone. Twice a week I break out the drugs and do it. For basically the rest of my life. It would nice not to need to do that


#5

I'm 44 years old. I've never been a bodybuilder or an athlete, but I do go to the gym on a regular basis. My weight yesterday was 266lbs at 73". I've noticed over the past year that no matter how hard I train and how closely I watch my diet, I'm picking up fat. All other test parameters were in the normal range. This endocrinologist told me the number 350 is controlled by the FDA. He would implant a pellet that releases test and brings levels into the 900 range for three months. I offered to pay cash and he declined.
How do you "restart" test production?


#6

This is not a simple uncomplicated case of low-T or age related decline.

We need to look at thyroid function, insulin sensitivity, cortisol etc.

"normal range" does not serve you well, many issues are lost in the numbers as the normal ranges are simply an arbitrary bracket that captures most if the sample population - 95%. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reference_range#Normal_distribution
This does not imply any state of normal health, but most doctors have that wrong. Many have numbers that are normal that are pointing to non-optimal conditions. Most doctors are into disease management, not health management and the idea of optimal states falls on deaf ears.

Need these labs with ranges in list format:
TT
FT
E2
LH/FSH
AST/ALT
CBC
hematocrit
fasting cholesterol
fasting glucose
A1C
DHEA-S
AM cortisol - at 8AM please
blood pressure
TSH
fT3
fT4 - please not T3, T4
IGF-1

FDA does not have set TRT threasholds and different labs have different results and ranges. Not many doctors are good at these things and oddly, Endos and urologists seem to be the worst.

We can get a good idea about overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

Low thyroid function can drive fat gain. Another sign is sparse outer eyebrows and one may feel cold easier. Thyroid can be messed up from not using iodized salt.

Please read these stickies found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics
  • finding a TRT doc

Please list whatever medications, Rx and OTC that you have used in last two years.
Please list supplements.

Vit-D3 is changes into Vit-D25 in our bodies and Vit-D25 is an essential steroid hormone needed for normal gene expression and normal cellular function. Please take 10,000iu per day. Take 25,000 for first 5 days. Test Vit-D25 at a future date to see where the supplements put you. Look for tiny 5,000iu gel capsules. Take these and other oils, fish oil etc, with low fiber meals.

We need to get your metabolic rate restored to enable fat loss.

How tall are you? Is 73" a typo?


#7

I do not have my lab results with me. The doc went over everything and kept the sheets. I am scheduled back at the end of next week for another blood sample to be re-tested. I will take my labs then. I don't think free test was sampled. Not remembering the numbers; all other tests were in the normal range, including thyroid, triglycerides, HDL and overall cholesterol. I am not on any meds. I've never had to take any. My supplements include:
Fish oil 1200mg x2/ed
Magnesium 400/ed
Creatine Monohydrate 5g/ed
BCAA 2:1:1 5g x2/ed
Protein powder (whey, albumen, casein) 25g x3/ed
Apple cider vinegar 30ml/ed
Psyllium fiber 7.5mg x2/ed
73" is 6'1" tall.
Why do you recommend a low fiber diet?


#8

Not a low fiber diet. It is a timing issue.

Avoid taking oil based or oil loving supplements with high fiber meals as they can get sequestered in fiber and pooped out lowering benefit.

I am making a lot of requests because your situation seems to require some deeper investigation and urgency. You cannot be passive about these things and need to manage these aspects of your own health care. In many cases, doctors+passive = fail. If you have to do some things out of pocket and/or order your own labs, just do it.


#9

Testosterone is a controlled substance so theoretically they need to be careful about prescribing it. They need to follow guidelines. But just using total test numbers is just lazy. There is also free testosterone and going by symptoms. Yours is low and your symptoms are classic low T. Your doctor can proscribe it if he wants to. Another doctor would do it.

That said we are getting ahead of ourselves. Your issue is not just low t. You are far too young, you need to look into the cause of the Low T. KSman is pointing you the right way


#10

You are very fortunate to have found this forum and have KSman to help you out. I would do as he says. As Verne says, as much as feel TRT saved my life, doing T, HGH, and HCG injections the rest of my life is a big hassle. If I could have prevented my crash or done a restart I would have preferred it.

Seems a lot of folks are wanting to hop on TRT really fast without exhausting all other attempts at getting their health back on line.

You should ask your doc to provide you copies of your labs, all 4 different docs who have done labs with me always give me a copy. Also these days you can also look at them online from the major lab companies' websites.


#11

I empathize with you. I wasn't allowed to hop on TRT until my T levels were 80. Tested at 294 (24 y/o), low 200s, in the 100s a couple times, and finally towards the end (29 y/o) ninety something -- where I was still denied as I was not 80. I have to parrot everyone, numbers in the 'normal' range don't mean anything if you're not feeling great and, like yourself, putting on fat easily.

I managed to make it to ~65 a month or two after that last 90 test though and there are ways of doing it as previously mentioned in this thread if that's the process you want to take. I just gave in and decided that it was time for me to try TRT... Now, shots are basically free (like less than $20/month) and life is looking so much better for me now.

I didn't want to make this about me, but, I wish you the best in whatever your decision may be (restart or TRT). Remember though, it's a long process either way to "feel" and see anything, I even contemplated giving up as estrogen was becoming too problematic during my treatment. I'd also listen to all the advice KSMan is going to give you in regards to the medical jargon... ask for clarification if necessary as that's over my head.


#12

I was at your range when I started my TRT. If you're having specific symptoms you eventually will find a doc who will put you on T. Just read carefully well placed comments above and at the same time gain more understanding of the topic.

I'm much younger than you, but had all the specific symptoms for a full year until I realised that I need to find a cause. Eventually I did all the labs mentioned in the sticky of this forum and it pointed out that my LH was at the top of the range, meaning that my testicles weren't working properly. When my balls then were measured they indeed were too small. If that would be the case, there's no need to talk about restart.

All the other labs I took were spot on; cortisol, thyroid panel, prolactin etc. Only cholesterol was slightly on the bad side, but now that and triglycerides are spot on as well.

My case is of course just an example, but points out the importance of a wider lab panel than just total T.

Personally, after being two years on TRT, I really don't mind the hassle around injections. The improvement in my life quality has just been that big.

Still, there's no point for one wanting to hop on to TRT just for the sake of it. Any given day I would choose natural T production if I had a chance. But when I don't, I really don't think about it at all. I'm just happy that I'm not tired all the time, have energy to do stuff and that my relationship is in good shape due to my interest towards sex. This wasn't the case before TRT.


#13

Its called quality of life, i work in blue collar job my freetime is spoken for , i.just dont have the fucking time, and money, hgc and clomid, can bring it up but not always. If someone created a diet and workout that bring my gh and test to level when i was 20, they would be billionares. A shot brings me to around 1000 then 5 days later 400, better then 350 daily. Around ten bucks a week. Guys my age 43 are noticing my increased muscle tone, and i talk about pussy instead of food.