T Nation

Not a Beginner But I'm Inconsistent

I am inconsistent in my lifting. Currently I am sitting at about 165 pounds, at 5’9". I was measured via BodPod at 6.5% bodyfat. My estimated 1RM (using the Wendler method) is

Squat 305
Deadlift 330
Bench 230
Military 130

My ultimate goal is to build my foundational strength and work up to a Bench/Squat/Deadlift of 300/400/500. If I can get to that point, I think I would be content with my general strength. At that point, I would switch over to increasing reps for mass and working on the Oly lifts for power. I do grappling recreationally, so getting incredibly strong is not a goal of mine. If I can get to those maxes and then build my weight up to 190 pounds of functional muscle while staying at a low bodyfat (six pack showing :slight_smile: ) I would be content.

My question–would I be classified as a novice according to Rippetoe? I am currently doing the 5-3-1 program by Wendler, but would it be more worth my while to do the Starting Strength novice program foor as long as I can?

You are not going to ‘get to those maxes and then get your body weight up’ all while staying under 10% bf unless you want it to take forever. Eat, lift heavy, and get to your lifting goals. After that, you can tackle the fat that you gain.

If you’re willing to do it this way, you could get there by the end of next year (get to the maxes and cut back down). If you try to maintain 6.5%, it could take you several years. I know several people who have been trying to do it your way for the better part of 5 years. They are now accusing me of being on steroids, even though I’ve explained it to them and they see me eating all the time.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
You are not going to ‘get to those maxes and then get your body weight up’ all while staying under 10% bf unless you want it to take forever. Eat, lift heavy, and get to your lifting goals. After that, you can tackle the fat that you gain.

If you’re willing to do it this way, you could get there by the end of next year (get to the maxes and cut back down). If you try to maintain 6.5%, it could take you several years. I know several people who have been trying to do it your way for the better part of 5 years. They are now accusing me of being on steroids, even though I’ve explained it to them and they see me eating all the time.[/quote]

What is “my way”? I just outlined my goals and then asked a question. I do nothing to maintain my bodyfat at under 6.5%.

I just asked whether I should use starting strength or 5-3-1?

[quote]Fiction wrote:

…My ultimate goal is to build my foundational strength and work up to a Bench/Squat/Deadlift of 300/400/500…

…If I can get to those maxes and then build my weight up to 190 pounds of functional muscle while staying at a low bodyfat (six pack showing :slight_smile: ) I would be content…[/quote]

All I’m saying is to forget your six-pack while working toward strength goals. As a matter of fact, you should be eating as if you want to get rid of your abs.

That’s the mindset I used to go from 170/14% to 210/16% in one year. Then, I dialed back the carbs and included barbell complexes in my program, and was back to 200/13% in three weeks.

I disagree with the advice that one should eat specifically to gain fat over their abs.

Muscle is gained slowly whether you gain a lot of fat with it or not. You just need consistency in your training and diet, as well as intensity during every workout.

I am definitely NOT advocating “staying at a lean 6% bodyfat while you gain muscle”, or “clean bulking”, or any of that crap, I’m simply suggesting that you eat enough protein and calories to grow, while getting to the gym often, and letting your body do whatever it is most comfortable with bodyfat-wise while you gain weight.

[quote]mr popular wrote:
I disagree with the advice that one should eat specifically to gain fat over their abs.

Muscle is gained slowly whether you gain a lot of fat with it or not. You just need consistency in your training and diet, as well as intensity during every workout.

I am definitely NOT advocating “staying at a lean 6% bodyfat while you gain muscle”, or “clean bulking”, or any of that crap, I’m simply suggesting that you eat enough protein and calories to grow, while getting to the gym often, and letting your body do whatever it is most comfortable with bodyfat-wise while you gain weight. [/quote]

You misread the advice. It was suggested to eat AS IF he wanted to lose his abs. If he’s the type of person that can stay at 6% ( I doubt he’s actually at 6 but thats a different story) or just single digits in general, than he probably doesn’t know what ‘big eating’ is. Some people need to completely change the way they look at eating to see progress. Simply ‘eating’ isn’t sufficient for people who are really skinny by nature. ‘Eating’ has to become ‘Feeding’.

No one suggests to intentionally gain fat. That’s stupid.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
mr popular wrote:
I disagree with the advice that one should eat specifically to gain fat over their abs.

Muscle is gained slowly whether you gain a lot of fat with it or not. You just need consistency in your training and diet, as well as intensity during every workout.

I am definitely NOT advocating “staying at a lean 6% bodyfat while you gain muscle”, or “clean bulking”, or any of that crap, I’m simply suggesting that you eat enough protein and calories to grow, while getting to the gym often, and letting your body do whatever it is most comfortable with bodyfat-wise while you gain weight.

You misread the advice. It was suggested to eat AS IF he wanted to lose his abs. If he’s the type of person that can stay at 6% ( I doubt he’s actually at 6 but thats a different story) or just single digits in general, than he probably doesn’t know what ‘big eating’ is. Some people need to completely change the way they look at eating to see progress. Simply ‘eating’ isn’t sufficient for people who are really skinny by nature. ‘Eating’ has to become ‘Feeding’.

No one suggests to intentionally gain fat. That’s stupid. [/quote]

Exactly.

Try it for a couple months and you’ll be surprised at the improved quality of your workouts, more motivation to train, better progress… and you’ll also be very surprised by the amount of fat you don’t gain. You’ll gain some, but nowhere near the amount you’d expect.

Good fucking God…my question was would I be clssified as a novice and should I stick with the 5-3-1 program or should I just begin over a the novice level of Rippetoe’s structure!!!

I do not give a shit about my diet or anything similar! I JUST GAVE THOSE GOALS TO SHOW WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO BE!!

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I doubt he’s actually at 6 but thats a different story[/quote]

I was measured via BodPod…is there any reason I shouldn’t trust that measurement?

[quote]Fiction wrote:
Good fucking God…my question was would I be clssified as a novice and should I stick with the 5-3-1 program or should I just begin over a the novice level of Rippetoe’s structure!!!

I do not give a shit about my diet or anything similar! I JUST GAVE THOSE GOALS TO SHOW WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO BE!![/quote]

Fine. Yes, you are a novice. Feel better?

Switch to Rip’s novice program. Because it has ‘novice’ in the title, and that’s obviously what you’re searching for.

[quote]JayPierce wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Good fucking God…my question was would I be clssified as a novice and should I stick with the 5-3-1 program or should I just begin over a the novice level of Rippetoe’s structure!!!

I do not give a shit about my diet or anything similar! I JUST GAVE THOSE GOALS TO SHOW WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO BE!!

Fine. Yes, you are a novice. Feel better?

Switch to Rip’s novice program. Because it has ‘novice’ in the title, and that’s obviously what you’re searching for.[/quote]

Is all you’re capable of is snide remarks and regurgitated advice?

Is this the best you can hope for in the beginner’s forum?

What do you mean when you say you’re inconsistent in your lifting?

Fiction- Switch to Starting Strength. You’re at a training age/lift level where you will seriously benefit from the increased frequency of squatting and benching. You should see some initial gains at the novice level, and my understanding is that the intermediate/advanced levels of SS are designed for people who have been doing SS Beginner for a while and need something else to force progress. Therefore, start at beginner, and when you are no longer seeing gains, switch again (to the intermediate/advanced or whatever).

Post a picture if you want us to give an opinion on whether or not you are a novice.

The type of questions you ask certainly make you sound like one but you wouldn’t be the first person to over think things. Many people hold themselves back because they don’t train instinctively. There’s really no way to tell how far along you are without seeing 5’9 165 6%.

And if you want to get up to 190 ‘with a 6 pack and functional muscle’ (you must really want to be taken for a troll with that statement) then you’ll need to eat a lot more than you eat now. Eat until you reach 200. Stay relatively lean in the process then shed ten pounds of fat. Pick any of the worthwhile programs and follow them. It’s almost impossible to fail reaching the goals you’ve outlined.

[quote]Fiction wrote:
JayPierce wrote:
Fiction wrote:
Good fucking God…my question was would I be clssified as a novice and should I stick with the 5-3-1 program or should I just begin over a the novice level of Rippetoe’s structure!!!

I do not give a shit about my diet or anything similar! I JUST GAVE THOSE GOALS TO SHOW WHERE I WOULD LIKE TO BE!!

Fine. Yes, you are a novice. Feel better?

Switch to Rip’s novice program. Because it has ‘novice’ in the title, and that’s obviously what you’re searching for.

Is all you’re capable of is snide remarks and regurgitated advice?

Is this the best you can hope for in the beginner’s forum?[/quote]

He took time out of his day to answer your question. Then you get all bull headed when he’s straight up with you? You made this thread and not him. So all sorts of criticism is to be expected, even if it ruffles your feathers.

If 5-3-1 is working for you, ride the motherfucker until you have milked all you can out of it.

Doesn’t matter though, from your title. Being “inconsistent” is going to be your biggest downfall no matter what program you’re on.

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
He took time out of his day to answer your question. Then you get all bull headed when he’s straight up with you? You made this thread and not him. So all sorts of criticism is to be expected, even if it ruffles your feathers.
[/quote]

Nothing about it ruffled my feathers other than that he wasn’t answering my question. I never said I had to “keep my abs” while bulking up and it wasn’t even a question I raised. I simply asked what the best method for improving would be.

I didn’t care about the criticism, I cared about the relevancy.

I was just mentioning it because I wanted to show the end goal I had in mind.

It all comes down to a basic question that only you can answer, am I still progressing? If the answer is yes, then stay with 5-3-1. If not, then either figure out where you are going wrong (and the issue is not in the program) or switch.

[quote]Fiction wrote:
I never said I had to “keep my abs” while bulking up and it wasn’t even a question I raised. I simply asked what the best method for improving would be.
[/quote]

Go back and read your original post. You most certainly did say that you wanted to work up to 300/400/500, then bulk up to 190lbs of functional muscle all while staying at low bodyfat (six pack showing).

What I was trying to point out to you is that the specific program you’re on is one of the least important details of your training. As long as it’s a balanced program in the right rep range for your goals, it’ll work… IF your diet is on par and you lift with intensity, and that includes eating enough to properly fuel your workouts and give your body what it needs to grow.

Ripptoe’s definition of a novice is simple: Can you do 3 sets of 5 on Monday, then come back on Wednesday and do 3 sets of 5 with more weight, and keep adding weight every workout? If you can, you are still a novice.

If you don’t meet the above definition of a novice, then fix you’re eating and I think you will find that you still can reap the quick gains of the linear progressions.

[quote]Fiction wrote:
If I can get to those maxes and then build my weight up to 190 pounds of functional muscle while staying at a low bodyfat (six pack showing :slight_smile: ) I would be content.

[/quote]

So none of your muscle is functional now? No wonder you are having issues!