What is You tube channel name?
I’d like to take a look.
What is You tube channel name?
I’d like to take a look.
TRT and Hormone Optimization
Yet another discussion on E2.
We went from “E2 is the plague of our century” to “let your E2 run wild and go over 100” so it can match your wife’s.
I will look at your videos, but your statements have been empirically dismissed by many of us that don’t tolerate an E2 out of range, included myself.
Also papers on the mortality graph and E2 levels in men are out there, and been reported many times. With low E2 being the worst, followed by high E2.
And no, I don’t use AIs and I don’t feel well on them.
People feeling well on such protocols are due to the T:E ratio, that was treated as Bro science until few months ago, and now ramping back up in fashion.
Anyone who ever did a cycle will confirm that.
The big questions that anyone can’t answer are:
“Do you know the long term effect of supra physiological level of T and E2 on your body?”
Why those levels haven’t been ever observed in healthy young men, athletes included?
Also, I’ve been in disagreement with Systemlord several times, but this is a forum and everyone should be able to express his opinion, unless it goes against the forum rules itself.
After all the forum is still overloaded with Ksman bro science and God knows the damage he has done to random users reading his posts.
@appassionato what exactly are you trying to say? I read it twice and your point wasn’t apparent to me.
That we went from “E2 must be 23 pg/mL” to “people are feeling amazing with E2>100” in the span of 2 years.
I’d like to see more prudence in statements like that, usually truth is in the middle ground.
We are dealing with people health and no one here is a doctor.
Here’s a doctor’s take
Most everything he’s posted is must read start to finish, so many nuggets in there.
That’ll take like a week
The topic summary says 138 minutes… You can do it, hahahah.
It will take a while, shitter worthy for sure. I read it real time as it was unfolding. It was must read as it was happening.
K I’ll read it tomorrow at work. It was slow af today anyways.
Just read a little at a time. That’s the guy who’s had the biggest effect on changing the forums AI thinking. He’s a 270lb endocrinologist focused on hormones with a thriving TRT practice
I see something on this forum that contradicts what you’re saying, guys lowering the dosage or taking a small AI dosage and symptoms are resolved. The lowering of the estrogen and the testosterone improved the symptoms. When I see this happen not once, but over and over again, when I see you come in here with "estrogen is irrelevant’, it just boggles the mind.
I truly believe the only reason some guys who take your side over good old common sense is your Youtube channel gives you fame, the only way you can override common sense.
I used to feel the same way with Jay’s YouTube channel, the longer I watched the more I knew I was fooling myself and I came to my senses and realized I had allowed myself to become compromised with someone who claimed to have all the answers that only fit a one way thinking.
I appreciate what he’s doing and still watch his channel from time to time, but I will pick out the stuff I know if BS. To those out there who have bought into one way dbossa way of thinking, you can only allow yourself to be fooled for so long.
I know the post and I wrote on it.
And I’ve been his patient as well for a brief time.
His point in any case was to manage estradiol in a different way, not an AI. He wasn’t against natural anti-aromatase like zinc for example.
In any case, his E2 was 40 with a total T of 6000, not really what dbossa is saying.
Do the math and calculate the ratio.
For the rest, well, systemlord said the rest.
This E2>100 will pass eventually.
How come you were a patient for only a brief time? Was the care not what you expect? From reading all his stuff in the forum, he seems very knowledgeable and that he knows what he’s doing.
@systemlord… fame? We have barely 6000 subscribers. This is a hobby of mine. I’m making $300+k a year with my business currently and ZERO from this stuff. I could walk away from this TRT nonsense today and it wouldn’t change my life one iota. It’s a hobby and I enjoy helping guys. I remember the situation that I was in when I started TRT, how I borderline almost lost my wife over it, and I would never wish that on my worst enemy. I do not earn a penny from YouTube (the little money that is made pays for the Zoom platform and the gear we bought to make the videos). I do the Facebook group for free. Private messages for free. Time spent in here for free. What do I POSSIBLY have to gain by dishing out incorrect information? Please enlighten me?
In regards to guys taking an AI and feeling better, how many times have I explained why? How many posts? Do I really need to explain this again? There are simple reasons why men believe they need an AI and I have gone into them at such depth that I don’t know how else I can explain it.
@appassionato I need to drive my kids to school now and will reply when I get back
Unfortunately no, it didn’t work for me.
But I did feel he is seriously willing to help his patient getting better and he has lot of empathy for them.
@dbossa I saw your video where you talk about that “viking” YouTube channel and, while agreeing on some things with you, that’s an exercise that won’t lead anywhere.
If you want to demonstrate that what he’s saying is false, you actually have to back it up with evidences, otherwise it’s just a sterile exercise.
The “I’m right, you are wrong exercise” doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
And I believe you are trying to help, like KSman was trying, but then pride kick in and people start defending their opinion regardless of what common sense and studies are suggesting.
50 posts in… this is going to be a good one
Empirically dismissed… if you are referring to anecdotally dismissed, which is all you have, then this is not evidence.
I’ve gone into great depth as to why men believe they need an AI when they simply do not. I’ve done a ton of videos on the subject to explain and have posted at length in this forum as well as in our FB group.
You are making a claim that E2 needs to be managed. I reject your claim because there is ZERO evidence in the literature that suggests this. Anecdotally, I’m dealing with hundreds of guys who are doing proper protocols and do not require an AI. Anecdotally, I know several with E2 over 100 and do not require an AI which contradicts your claim.
I have gone into great length about the studies you mention in regards to mortality with low or high E2. These are observational studies (I even did a video SPECIFICALLY on this subject).
Homework for you to back up your stance on this subject:
Provide any medical literature that demonstrates E2 being blocked in any study regarding TRT.
Provide an interventional study where either testosterone or estrogen was raised and it caused harm. Where they assessed the men first, gave them testosterone or estrogen, assessed them afterwards, and that it was shown to cause harm. You won’t be able to find one. Why? Because in every single study where they raised testosterone or estrogen, the men improved.
Find me ANY man that has optimized T levels and doing daily administration of TRT who has any of the issues you speak of.
What you consider supraphysiological was normal just a decade ago. How come the men with normal levels of testosterone back then weren’t dying? Why aren’t teenagers dropping dead with their naturally high levels of T?
I am all for opinion. I am NOT for someone insisting on dishing out false information that could potentially harm someone’s health. I will not tolerate that for one second. Tell me why that should not be the case.
The entire position the Viking guy took is absolutely and demonstrably false yet he refused a debate. His comments under his video is that he will use anecdotal evidence over clinical evidence in the literature 100% of the time. This is nonsense. He should not be allowed to have a clinic. Demonstrate why this would be false.
You stated “no one here is a doctor”. Please visit the YT channel and see how many doctors are saying precisely what I am saying above. Is it because they aren’t members of T-Nation? That makes what they are saying irrelevant? Please explain.
I mean… some of them ARE members here and are saying the same thing.
(Or at least one of them is anyways)