T Nation

Nootropics, antidepressants

I use antidepressants not to cure depression but to feel confident and emotionally stable.

Prior use of these drugs include Prozac and Reboxetine - but the more I read about these drugs and various neurotransmittors the more I´m convinced dopamine to be an overlooked factor.

The effect I´m looking for I feeling energetic and sociable ALL the time so which is the best choice of the following dopaminergic drugs ?

  1. Wellbutrin
  2. L-deprenyl
  3. Bromocriptine

Any other options ?

Why not try Tribex? When I first started taking this product, I felt great. My T levels were higher than normal which made my workouts better (increases confidence) and also when your T levels are elevated you have an overall sense of well being. You kinda feel like superman, only without the super strength and super powers but you feel like you can do more, which is confidence. This may not be the answer your looking for or you may be on the stuff right now. It’s just my two cents.

Wellbutrin will make you feel more energetic (but not in a stimulant way). It stacks very well with any SRI inhibitor (prozac, etc.) and will cancel out any sexual side-effects the SRI class often causes.

I currently use wellbutrin and effexor XR to combat major depression and it is working very well when just about everything else has failed.

I’m currently taking Depakote, Seroquel, and Paxil for manic-depressive illness. Paxil is the best SSRI medication I’ve been on so far. Moreover, it’s the only FDA approved SSRI to treat social anxiety disorder. Hence, it will make you feel more sociable.

Try cocaine!!!
DO you mean to say that you take antidepressants and you don’t need them? You need them to feel sociable and confident? If you don’t need these drugs get off them NOW!!! stop fucking with your brain chemistry!

All mood-altering drugs “fuck with the chemistry of the brain.” Cocaine, for example, is a norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor. This causes the amount of norepinephrine in the brain to increase. This rapidly speeds up the electrical activity in the brain. Hence the high is indirectly caused by the cocaine, the feeling is actually the result of the increase of NE. SSRI antidepressants do the same thing, only with serotonin instead of NE. Correct me if I’m wrong, Mr. Roberts.

I am currently on well butrin, my doctoir prescribed it because,Get this… low t-levels. He thought that this would up my sex life and up my levels. I found out that in order to get of it you need to cut down or will suffer withdrawal. also if you take well butrin be careful I found that at larger doses you run the risk of stroke.I used androsol and found that it raised my levels drasticly and am trying to get of the well butrin.If you need to take it for deprssion fine, but if yoyu just want to take it, well I think you oughta rethink this one a little better.

Not bill obviously.
However, this is somewhat addressed to Jason.

Cocaine is far from just a NE reuptake inhibitor, it has
multiple effects on the dopamine and serotonergic systems as well.
In fact, many stimulants are confused as primarily dopaminergic when often they act on several systems significantly. For example amphetamine or methylphenidate (cocaine’s benign cousin)
are known in ADD to alter the dopamine and serotonin balance which is believed to result in their paradoxical calming effects in children with hyperkinesis. Note- the dopamine effect are primarily responsible for the rewarding properties of all drugs and life for that matter…

Stimulants are not good long term options—IMO.
Don’t get me wrong, these drugs have their uses.
However, long term use of these boys lead to significant depletions of monoamines and vasopressin levels.

They also increase cortisol and CRF.
(not a good thing)
Side note:
CRF antagonists are currently being researched as next generation
antidepressants.

Plus, sadly tolerance seems to build with chronic use.
You don’t get that big bang for your buck any more
due to receptor changes or
a more efficent removal from the blood.

Modafinil is a much safer stimulant though not anywhere as fun.
It can be found here in the states as Provigil.
It is similar (feeling) subjectively to caffeine only there are no jitters
or anxiety issues.

very clean but
not as powerful as the classic
upper class drugs.

Please note cocaine is not nearly as convient of
a social drug as amphetamine either.
The high is short and steep.
Amphetamine on the other hand has a much longer halflife which theoriticallly could be extended by
a mild alkanizing of the blood.
(maybe glutamine or sodium bicarbonate).

Some studies have shown
a increase in half life by 7 hrs using this method.

Some people like to mix low dose Ghb with
amphetamine.
This method is referred to as “maxing”.

Believe me when i tell you this works wonders.
:slight_smile:

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The cocaine thing was just a joke. Yes I know that all drugs alter the brain chemistry. I had the misfortune of working in an emergency psych ward for two years. The common factor a lot of these people people had who had cracked was that doctors hooked them on mood elevators. When they stop taking them they go nuts. If your just taking this shit to feel sociable I would look for another source.

First off I’m very surprised that no one metioned talking Powerdrive or Twinlab’s Choline Cocktail. Isn’t tyrosine a precursor to dopamine??? BINGO!!!
I was on Wellbutrin for over a year and a half and came off pretty easily by taking Twinlab’s Choline Cocktail while taking 150 mg Wellbutrin every other day…(I believe all the tablets are sustained release so breaking the tablets might not be a good idea)…also for those of you in that same boat that I was you might want to up the essential fat a little. Oh and you might want to take the Powerdrive over the Choline Cocktail…you’ll get more servings and a more potent product.
Hope this helps - CT

The best option in my opinion would be to use 5mg of selegeline HCL (Deprenyl; Eldepryl) once daily (do NOT use with high blood pressure medication or other monoamine oxidase inhibitors) and 800mg piracetam (Nootropil; or you may have access to the more potent oxyracetam or aniracetam - reduce milligram dosage to appropriate levels - read the package insert) twice daily for about a month or six weeks. Repeat whenever you feel it necessary or take a 2 - 3 week break and start again.

For trainers over 40 especially this combo will enhance mood and drive and most definitely increase results from training. Unless you are on high blood pressure medication or use other monoamine oxidase inhibitors, this combination will have no adverse side effects, will not create dependence and will also be of assistance to anyone coming off a steroid cycle as it seems to affect the total hormonal system positively.

Smallish doses of the amino acid L-Tyrosine (up to 3g at a time) will enhance the dopamine stimulating effect of the selegeline HCL.

In clinical trials selegeline HCL increased the lifespan of lab rats by a third. The rats on selegeline HCL were also more active and alert than the control rats.

My own experience (3 - 4 years intermittent use)with selegeline HCL and piracetam (prescribed by my doctor after convincing him of the potential benefits)has been extremely positive. I would recommend selegeline HCL and piracetam to anyone 40 and over. I am 41 years old and have been training for more than 20 years. Another favourite of mine is alpha lipoic acid, which I also consider a "must". Anyway, I'd better sign off for now as I do not write articles for T-mag (yet)!

Thank you Jacques, finally a reply worth noting. I was considering using 10 mg´s of deprenyl, have you tried that dosage ?

Tyrosine and Phenylanine are already on my supplement program although I have only used 1000 mg´s of each.

For younger people even 5mg of selegeline HCL (Deprenyl) every second day can be effective. Start with 5mg once daily - you can later progress to 5mg twice daily (morning and evening)if you feel the need, but this dosage may let you feel a little light-headed initially.

Do NOT use Deprenyl and Prozac together.

My pick would be 5-HTP at 50mg or so per
day BUT you would need to limit or eliminate
all Vit. B-6 intake and you probably would
want to use it with carbodopa.

Other than that, I might try Meridia (sibutramine).

–brock

Just a little note on the side! Deprenyl isn’t a selective maoi with dosages over 20mg/day! Problems could start then, ie. tyrosine-effect etc. Note! It is just my belifs and I dont have any proof for it, except reading alittle about it in the PDR’s and on the net! It(Deprenyl) has a nice little effect though!

If one could still find it supposedly
amineptine and deprenyl are
a killer combo.
Please excuse the 80’s terminology -(killer).
Note: amineptine is
a tricyclic (french drug) that blocks the re-uptake
of dopamine primarily. Also known to cause
isolated spontaneous orgasms in women.
:slight_smile:

Brock, I agree sibutramine might be a good mood booster but so far as I have read the dopamine effect is minmial or nonexistent.

That is probably why there is
little to no abuse potential.

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