T Nation

Non-TRT Friendly Dr, Ordering on My Own


Hi, first post, although I've been reading some threads here.

40 years old, been feeling really tired/shitty for a couple years, no libido, etc. etc. I'm in pretty good shape; decided to hit the gym for about a year and a half before I approached the doctor in case it was because I just got lazy.. 5'10", 175-180, not sure about body fat but probably around the 13-15% range (I like pizza...sue me!)

I finally decided to ask my PCP for a blood test to check my T level, although since I've never had it checked before I don't know what my levels were when I felt "normal." I think my first test came back about 360 TT, then a retest showed about 340 TT. According to the "normal range" I am at "low normal." That doesn't mean a lot to me because I have read that low-normal numbers might just as well apply to a healthy 70 year old, which wouldn't surprise me based on how I feel.

Anyway, after practically begging, PCP agreed to let me try Androgel and he wrote me a prescription for one 2.5 packet per day. I didn't realize until I got home from the pharmacy and read the insert that that was only 1/2 of the recommended starting dose. That doesn't surprise me though, based on how hard it was to get anything from him. I've been using it for 4 days now and I can't say I really feel anything. Maybe a TINY bit less lethargic, but that could very well be placebo or even just in my imagination altogether.

The PCP wants me to keep on this for 2 months then get another blood test. I have no idea if he'll bump me up to 2 2.5 packets per day after that, but I'm not holding my breath.

So, I put out an inquiry and got a few responses back from some places in China and I'm wondering if anyone here can give me some pointers on just the basic "get back to normal levels" stuff I should consider purchasing. I'm not looking to get some big endurance and muscle-building boost from this--I just want to start off getting to mid-range or upper 1/3 range and then I'll reconsider if I want to hazard anything additional.

I'm fine with injections. I'm fine with powder, provided I can just mix it with that SPMO or whatever it's called (get the initials mixed up...) and apply it topically, but I'm no chemist and don't want to break out the centrifuge, flasks, and beakers!

Thanks in advance,



The info you want is in the stickies. They layout a great protocol and explain everything for getting started on TRT.

My personal recomendation is to go get more bloodwork done before you start anything to make sure youre not just masking a different problem. - Check thyroids, adrenals, etc.

Also - find a doc that will work with you.

Good Luck


I started using some DMSO on the areas I used the Androgel and I think it has made a difference. I’m definitely not as tired as I was, but I do have some testicular “ache” on occasion. I have NOT been using the gel on my testicles, just shoulders, upper arms, and abdomen.

I’ve read all 10 pages of the famous “sticky” here and feel like injections would be a much more accurate way of doing things, as I have no idea what kind of T dosage I’m getting from the gel, and especially not with adding the DMSO.

The problem is that I am 99% sure that my doctor will NOT go with injections when we next meet, but I am hoping to get him to increase my Androgel to the normal starting dose of 5gm per day. Even so, I think I might rather just inject following the protocol here to see how it goes.

If I do that, is there any use for the Androgel that I will have through my prescription? I hate to waste it, so would there be some way to combine it with the protocol described, in addition to the EOD or E3D injections? Obviously, I should taper back the amount I inject, but since I’d have the Androgel, should I still go with Cyp, or should I use Prop? Or something else?

I’m still very early in my TRT journey, but will post as I go. I’ll also likely have to get some blood tests on my own, because my doctor doesn’t test for all of the things mentioned here (not even E2, or FT).



If you are sincere in saying that you just want to get closer to “normal” and not necessarily get to a supra-physiological level, natural supplements can make a measurable difference. Our company has a product with a couple ingredients to increase your own testosterone production and three ingredients to limit aromatization. I have put people on this and seen their test levels increase as measured by blood work.

As to you not having a “baseline”, I can say that we like to see our people at 400-500. If you increased to this amount, I almost guarantee you would feel much better. I have seen people’s symptoms improve with improvements as small as 30 points.


Yes, I’m really looking to stay within the “normal” ranges, but would prefer to be at least somewhere above the mid-line rather than down in the bottom quarter.

I’m willing to look into natural supplements, if they work.



[quote]The Mayor wrote:
Yes, I’m really looking to stay within the “normal” ranges, but would prefer to be at least somewhere above the mid-line rather than down in the bottom quarter.

I’m willing to look into natural supplements, if they work.


If it were that easy, everybody would be doing it…


Best advice would be to find another doctor. I went through a year of hell (and three docs) before I got sorted out. Trust me, if you end up on a roller coaster of up/down with your T levels - which you certainly will because each doc will want baseline blook work - it’s going to majorly suck. Been there, done that. Check around, make some calls, and find a doc that will work with you. Endos are hit and miss, but certainly better than a PCP that doesn’t want to get you fixed.

Alternatively, you can try to “educate” your doc, if you like him and want to try and stick it out with him. Print off the sticky info and any other pertinent info you can get, and discuss it with him. Many docs won’t mess with it because they don’t understand it; educating them can certainly help them help you.


Yeah, I wish it was as easy to find a decent doctor than it is to find the necessary components to do it myself online.

I’ll see how my doc responds after my next blood draw. If he won’t increase me then I’ll have to find someone else. This is assuming, of course, that the massive 2.5g dose of Androgel he prescribed didn’t shoot my levels through the roof (sarcasm).

I have a question regarding the HCG–I’ve read somewhere that HCG by itself can raise T levels. Is that accurate? If so, how long before my blood test should I d/c it so my doctor can get an accurate read on just what the 2.5g Androgel is doing?

And one more HCG question: Since I’m under 100mg per week of T (even if the DMSO is doubling the Androgel’s effectiveness I’d still only be getting 35mg per week, my HCG is going to last a long time. Even if one were using the “protocol” level of 250IU EOD that would take a good 40 days to go through a 5000IU vial. Does the HCG last that long, even if refrigerated and mixed with Bac Water?



I will be very interested to see what happens with your bloodwork. My guess is that your levels are going to go down. That dose is so low, it’s just a joke and you are now going to surpress your natural production.

I found a doc that was willing to prescribe, my levels were low 300’s as well. Much to my surprise, he prescribed a trouche (sublingual) and would not script out inject. I just went out and bought my own inject. Figured if I ever ran into a problem I could say that I had a script for test.

If you are going inject, I would try 100mg every 5 days and see what happens. You could run a bigger dose but that may get you where you want to go.

As everyone else said, find another doc. Best of luck to you.