T Nation

Non-Lifting Diet

I use P+C as a place holder for a serving of fruit. As far as the fibrous green veggies go, you can have them at any meal, as much as you want, even the P+F meal. Salmon, broccoli and olive oil is a really yummy P+F meal! (grin)

Milk is okay first meal of the day or PWO, yes.

OK, I think that all makes sense. I suppose my only question now is the 7:00pm meal. I’ll have my post workout shake w/ whey, milk, & oats like we talked about, shower, then have a decent dinner…right?

Yes, give it a go, Franchise, and report in your results. If you’re happy with your results week by week, you’ll keep things as they are. And if you’re not happy with your results for any reason, I’ll help you tweak and adjust things a bit.

Outcome-based decision making, right? (grin)

OK, how does this sound -

5:30am - 1/2 Serving whey, 8oz Milk, 1/4 C Pineapple (P: 20, C: 16, F: 1)

7am - 4 Egg whites, 1 Egg Yolk, 1/4 C Pineapple (P: 14, C: 4, F: 5)

9am - 3/4 C Kidney beans (do those count as fruit? P: 31, C: 85, F: 1)

12:30 - 6oz Chicken, 1 C Broccoli (P: 54, C: 5, F: 6)

3:30 - 1 Can Tuna, 1 C Spinach, 1 T Olive oil (P: 33, C: 1, F: 15)

5:30 - 1 Serving whey & creatine (P: 24, C: 3, F: 1)

WORKOUT

7pm - 1 Serving whey & creatine, 10oz milk, 1 C Oats (P: 47, C: 72, F: 7)

DINNER

9:45 - 1 C Cottage cheese, 1/4 C Almonds (P: 34g, C: 15, F: 15)

That doesn’t completely stick to your guideline. You only had fat listed for meals 5 & 7. Should I double my quantity of olive oil on meal 5? Should I drop the almonds in meal 7 and get flaxseed oil for there?

Also, I didn’t know if kidney beans count as fruit, but I used them in meal 3.

I didn’t put any fruit in meal 4, but I had a veggie (broccoli). Is that OK? I understand if they’re not interchangable, but I just don’t know if I can add an apple on top of all that. I was going to put a T of Olive Oil there too, but you didn’t have it listed as a P + F, so I wasn’t sure if that was acceptable.

I’m hitting the gym today (will try to hit my P goals and eat some healthy fruit) but tomorrow is a holiday so I don’t work - so I’ll have another day to try & get this all dialed in.

Thank you.

No beans aren’t a fruit. I make them their own unique requirement that needs to be hit every day. There are so many benefits to eating beans that I could go on for pages and pages. It’s not just health benefits. They have blood stabilizing and body composition benefits, too. Put them in whatever meal you’re hungriest, and don’t worry about whether it’s a P+C or P+F meal. They have a low glycemic index anyway.

You only had fat listed for meals 5 & 7. Should I double my quantity of olive oil on meal 5? Should I drop the almonds in meal 7 and get flaxseed oil for there?

Your fat requirements are 88g per day. Make sure you’re getting 2 tablespoons of olive oil at one of your P+F meals and 2 tablespoons of flaxseed oil (and/or fish oil) at another P+F meal. If you don’t go over 88g per day, then you can keep the almonds. (grin) If not, they need to go.

I didn’t put any fruit in meal 4, but I had a veggie (broccoli). Is that OK? I understand if they’re not interchangable, but I just don’t know if I can add an apple on top of all that.

There are no limits on the amount of broccoli or any other fibrous green veggie that you consume. If it’s a P+C meal (aka a P+Fruit meal), then go ahead and have your fruit, yes. Remember, you should be consuming your beans every single day, at whatever meal you are typicaly hungriest.

Here’s the structure of your plan:

05:30 P + Fruit (1/2 meal or portion)
07:00 P + Fruit (1/2 meal or portion)
09:00 P + Fruit
12:30 P + Fruit
03:30 P + Fat
05:30 Workout
07:00 Whole Food PWO Meal w/ Starchy Carbs
09:45 to 10:30 P + Fat

Let me know if I missed anything, Franchise.

And don’t worry. You don’t have to follow my recommendations precisely/exactly to still see some very nice results. (grin) You’ll just raise the ante a bit if you’re not seeing the results you want.

The more I think about it, I believe I’d like to actually drop in weight. Right now I’m 220 and I have no idea about body fat %. I’m guessing probably around 15-20 or so…not too sure. I’m not fat, but I’m not cut either. I’m probably your average 29 going on 30 in 6 weeks type of guy, with a little more muscle.

I will be sticking to your plan, regardless of what you prescribe. Starting next week here’s what I have figured:

5:30 - 1/2 piece of watermelon, 1/2 scoop whey, 8oz milk

7:00 - 1/2 piece watermelon, 4 egg whites, 1 egg yolk

9:00 - can of tuna, 1 C spinach, 1/2 C pineapple

12:30 - 4oz beef, 1 C broccoli, 1 peach

3:30 - 4oz chicken, 2 T Olive oil, 1/2 C black beans (already bought and am excited for something other than kidney!!!), 1/2 C pasta, 1 tsp. parasean cheese

5:30 - 1 scoop whey w/ water & creatine

7:00 - 1 sccop whey w/ 10oz milk, 1 C oats, creatine

7:30 - dinner w/ wife

9:45 - 1 C fat free cottage cheese, 2 T flaxseed oil (already bought!!!)

Let me know how that suits you.

The one thing I do know is that at this rate, it’s going to be over my 1g protein per lbs. I’m not sure if that matters to you at all.

Let’s take your plan up a notch, Franchise. How about we put some numbers to it?

05:30 P + Fruit (1/2 meal or portion); P=18g; Fruit=50 calories
07:00 P + Fruit (1/2 meal or portion); P=18g; Fruit=50 calories
09:00 P + Fruit; P=36g; Fruit=100 calories
12:30 P + Fruit; P=36g; Fruit=100 calories
03:30 P + Fat; P=36g; Fat=28g
05:30 Workout
07:00 Whole Food PWO Meal w/ Starchy Carbs; P=36g; Starchy Carbs=72g
09:45 to 10:30 P + Fat; P=36g; Fat=28g

Now what you need to do is go through your plan and make the numbers fit. You may have to increase the amounts of some things and reduce the amounts of others. At the end of the day, make sure you don’t go over the 88g of fat you’re allowed.

Questions? (grin)

I guess what I don’t get is the pre/post-workout shake. They’re still there, right?

I mean, I can make the rest of it work, but in addition to the meals, I usually have whey pre workout, and whey, milk, & oats post workout, then dinner with my wife, then a snack.

You’re right! Sorry about that. I’ll re-do your numbers.

05:30 P + Fruit (1/2 meal or portion); P=18g; Fruit=50 calories
07:00 P + Fruit (1/2 meal or portion); P=18g; Fruit=50 calories
09:00 P + Fruit; P=32g; Fruit=100 calories
12:30 P + Fruit; P=32g; Fruit=100 calories
03:30 P + Fat; P=32g; Fat=28g
05:30 Workout Drink; P=24
07:00 Whole Food PWO Meal w/ Starchy Carbs; P=32g; Starchy Carbs=64g
09:45 to 10:30 P + Fat; P=32g; Fat=28g

OK, I see you added the pre-workout drink, but what about post-workout? Am I just skipping that shake & having a meal instead? Don’t I need the whey right afterwards?

OK, I’ve been doing some tinkering. Let me know what you think.

Based on a 220lbs weight and your numbers, I need 220g protein & 88g fat.

Fat: 88g - 27g (2T olive oil) - 28g (2T flax seed oil) - 7g (estimated buffer for dinner)= 28g remaining fat throughout my day.

Protein: 220g - 48g (pre & post whey) - 20g (estimated buffer for 7pm dinner) = 152g remaining throughout my day. My protein sources for this will be meats, fish, chicken, eggs, & cottage cheese (any additional protein from other sources will be a bonus).

I prefer to eat in the following manner:

*5:30/7:00am - Breakfast
*9:00 - Snack
*12:30 - Lunch
*3:30 - Snack
5:30/7:00 - Pre & post workout (ALREADY COVERED)
7:30 - Dinner (ALREADY COVERED)
*9:45 - Snack

Based on that, I have 5 meals to get in roughly 150g protein & 28g f and not worry about carbs - not yet at least.

I’m going to basically drop the fat concern for now and assume it’s going to come my meats and if I start going over the 88g per fitday, then I’ll start to change out some foods & find lower fat solutions.

So, what I’ve come up with then is 30g protein on average per meal, fruit in the first 3 meals, fat in the 4th & last meal, milk with my 1st meal & post-workout (any protein from milk falls into the “bonus” category), & 1/2 beans in one meal.

Would it be acceptable to go forward based on this, or would you like to see something different?

I like the way you tinker, Franchise!!! (grin) It’s logical!!!

The only area of opportunity is probably in the area of your PWO drink. You don’t really need 50% more protein than any other meal. 30g of whey protein divided between pre- and post workout drinks would be all you need. Even then what I’d really like to see you doing is consuming something like Surge, which has that 2:1 ratio of starchy carbs to protein that you’ll see me recommending.

I’m going to basically drop the fat concern for now and assume it’s going to come my meats and if I start going over the 88g per fitday, then I’ll start to change out some foods & find lower fat solutions.

That works. Just as a general rule of thumb …

Try to keep fat in your P+C meals to less than 5g.
Try to keep carbs in your P+F meals to less than 10g.

Would it be acceptable to go forward based on this, or would you like to see something different?

My thoughts and recommendations aside, I think you’ll be fine either way. Give it a whirl, Franchise, and do some outcome-based decision making based on the results you get over 2 or 3 weeks’ period of time. As an example, HogLover IMPROVED his diet, but isn’t PERFECT. Nonetheless, he’s making some very nice progress and is very happy with his results.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

My next week is going to be crazy hectic, so I’m focused on getting 3 days of lifting & 2 days of cardio in…they probably won’t fit my preferred M-F routine, but as long as I get them in, I’ll be happy.

After that, I should be pretty much set for the next 5 weeks. My birthday week will probably be a bit off kilter too, but that’s a ways out.

Thanks again for all your help. How should I go about updating this? Weight/measurements next Friday and then weekly updates to tinker more with the diet?

Things are moving along so far, but I’m having a tough time hitting the 100kcal fruit per meal. I’ve been eating 2 apricots, 1 big slice watermelon, 1 large orange, 1 apricot & 2/3 C grapes, or 1/2 C pineapple…all are under 100g per fitday and usually fall in the 60-80kcal range.

I am however getting varied fruit servings in the first 3 meals of the day, so I’m not sure how concerned I should be.

Any tips on reaching the goal, fruits to hit or avoid, etc.?

Thanks again for all your help. How should I go about updating this? Weight/measurements next Friday and then weekly updates to tinker more with the diet?

Yes, definitely post every Friday with how you’re doing. What I really like is when someone posts their latest results and the two weeks prior. That way we can look at trends.

I tend not to tinker with things week by week. A lot of times one “off” week will correct itself the following week. Over the course of 2 or 3 weeks if things aren’t going as they should, though, I’ll make changes to the plan/numbers.

Try eating your fruit first. Keeping you full is part of keeping you in compliance. (grin) A person who’s full and whose blood sugar levels are stable is far less likely to break down and eat something they shouldn’t.

There are no fruits to avoid. Some are higher in sugar/calories/carbs than others, but that just means you get less on some fruits than others.

You can re-do your numbers so that they’re closer to 80 calories than 100. The requirement is that you hit a range of 80-100 calories.

Let me know if that helps. If it doesn’t, we’ll keep kicking it around.

So small rant.

I had a looooong day at work today. Just annoying. Plus I was in a foul mood all day. Nothing related to work, just some other stuff I have going on in my life right now…and I tend to hold onto stuff in my mind, dwell on it, and just get pissed about it all day long. So my wife & I are riding home from work (we carpool) and I’m still just pissy.

Yesterday we went to the store, had a 2-for-1 coupon for New York steaks, and picked them up. A big steak dinner with my wifey was the sole bright spot I looked forward to my whole day.

Anyway I eat right all day. I didn’t exactly hit my fruit caloric requirement with each meal, but I got 3 servings of fruit in (65, 38, & 86 kcal respectively), got my protein in, hit the gym and finally felt REALLY good for the first time all day. Had my post workout shake of whey, oats, & milk, got the steaks out to hit room temp. while I showered.

I decide we should have breakfast. I fry up 2 eggs for me, 1 for her, split a cup of hashbrowns with her, and even be a good boy & split my 12oz (pre-cooked) steak in half. I’m feeling not full, but not hungry, go downstairs to enter my meal into fitday and…son of a bitch. I’m 10g over my fat intake minimum for the day.

So now I drop my standard 2 T serving of flax seed oil down to 1 so I only go 2g over my fat goal for the day.

It’s just frustrating…and lame. And now I’m back to pissy again.

There’s an easy fix, Franchise. Reduce your fat intake 10g tomorrow by picking leaner cuts of meat, eggs and dairy.

It doesn’t work that way with protein, but fat you can get away with it. Just don’t do it on purpose. The fat recommendations I make are actually an important part of your plan, and it’s better to hit your number every day than to run high and low, high and low.

That’s an easy fix. Don’t stress. Give your wife a hug and pet or brush a cat or dog. “They’ve” found that the act of petting a cat reduces stress and blood pressure levels. (grin)

Does that help? Did your day just get a little better? (grin)

Careful on those hash browns. I don’t allow/recommend 'em on a cutting diet. They tend to combine F+C. Save 'em for your cheat/treat/free meal if you’re rally craving 'em.

How are you doing otherwise?

Better. This week’s been all off for me.

Usually I like to lift M, W, F and do cardio T & Th. No chance of that this week.

My mom passed away in Jan. from cancer. We knew it was coming, but it’s still been rough. As such, I went through a period where friends & family were all stopping by with casseroles or taking us out to dinner, or bringing large buckets of chicken. Plus I was drinking a lot. Anyway, after a few months, I pretty much shifted back into my normal mode.

Anyway, Monday night after work we all went to the high school my mom worked at. There’s a scholarship in her name and we all wanted to see the presentation of it in the assembly. As such, no workout.

Tuesday was lame too. My dad is trying to start kinda dating again…not really too keen on everything yet, but I’m trying to be supportive. Well, Tuesday me, the wife, my sister, & her husband got to meet the new lady. That meant pizza & beer, and no workout. Lame.

Wednesday I got back on track, with the exception of the second breakfast. Still I hit the gym, and ate healthy otherwise.

Yesterday (Thursday), the dog & I ran instead of walking, and then last night I did HIIT. I ate according to plan (2408 kcal, 218g protein, 89g fat, 176g carbs & 3 pieces of fruit in the 77-88 kcal range).

Today I’m on point so far, and don’t foresee any issues arising. My wife & I are hitting the gym after work, I’ll do some HIIT tomorrow, and then the gym again on Sunday.

After that, I’m gonna take Monday off, and then hit the gym Tuesday. My plan is to take 2 weeks to get back to my standard week plan.

Boy, what you shared conversationally/informationally sure gives me a lot of insight. And what people might not realize is that pizza and beer meal was a COMPROMISE and just about the last thing you wanted to be doing. But it’s exactly the sort of thing I’d have done myself if I had been in the same circumstances. I’m proud of you, Franchise, for keeping your priorities straight and knowing when to bend the rules.

If this past week wasn’t the best, this coming week will be better. The type of diet you’re on is really a LIFESTYLE way of eating more than it is a DIET. So think in terms of a lifetime and a lifestyle. The things you’ve learned and how you eat can be temporarily set aside anytime you need to … and just as easily/quickly picked back up again.

When you’re under stress or under fire, make sure you find a way to get outside and walk. I’m not talking treadmills, either! Walking won’t fix the things that are wrong, but will increase your ability to cope. It improves brain chemistry and mood noticably.

The only thing I would say is don’t ever try to make up for weeks gone bad by increasing cardio. That’s not to say that you can’t walk every day if you’re under stress, but don’t do it to pay for dietary indiscretions.

And I’d still like to see you take your cheat/treat/free meal with your wife. Go out on a date. Go somewhere special and let her know how much she means to you. If you do that, everything else will fall into place, and you’ll sail through next week in a lot better shape than you would otherwise.

Oh man, my wife is gonna love you for suggesting the extra cheat meal & date. I’ll definitely make that happen.

Thanks for the wonderful advice as usual, and the awesome input.