[quote]DJS wrote:
People are really fucking stupid. But… I mostly blame fitness authors and not the idiots. They get this shit from reading articles to try and improve themselves. A lot of people believe what they read from “experts”. You feed people horseshit who don’t know the difference and this is what happens. People just blindly parrot out the nonsense they have read but don’t bother to take a look at their pipe cleaners first.
[/quote]
I mostly blame Authors to. TNation would better off hiring some of the veteran posters on this site to write articles with real word experince and who look like they lift. Thats why I like authors like Dave Tate/ Jim Wendler / Mat krock/ Andy Bolton etc these guys have reached elite status in the real world there advise is a simple no bull shit approach that works. Dave Tate also writes a article on this site about direct arm training which illustrates this point exactly.
[quote]DJS wrote:
Everything I just said above is true… But after reading the linked thread above i think that was an obvious troll job. He got everyone pretty good. I’m sure whomever that was… got a nice laugh as everyone fell into their predictable responses as they expected. [/quote]
My blood is still boiling this is a troll job alwrite.
[quote]DJS wrote:
People are really fucking stupid. But… I mostly blame fitness authors and not the idiots. They get this shit from reading articles to try and improve themselves. A lot of people believe what they read from “experts”. You feed people horseshit who don’t know the difference and this is what happens. People just blindly parrot out the nonsense they have read but don’t bother to take a look at their pipe cleaners first.
[/quote]
I mostly blame Authors to. TNation would better off hiring some of the veteran posters on this site to write articles with real word experince and who look like they lift. Thats why I like authors like Dave Tate/ Jim Wendler / Mat krock/ Andy Bolton etc these guys have reached elite status in the real world there advise is a simple no bull shit approach that works. Dave Tate also writes a article on this site about direct arm training which illustrates this point exactly.[/quote]
I don’t have yet big arms (44cm umpumped/17,33inch,can post pic if you want…),my loads are 115/118kg (255lb)x10 for (very close)close grip press,elbows tucked, (did just this excercise for past 2 years because elbows problems not related to lifting) and 45kg/100lb for barbell curls (very strict form) and do 3 sets RP to failure twice for week,gained almost 2inch since i restarted to train after 15 (fifteen) years of stop but now I’m doing heavy (for me= 110/120kg) reverse barbell rows,I rest for 5/7min and then I do bb curl for biceps,well,my loads on curls went down of about 15% epr same reps number so I see that reverse rows fatigue/stressed bis.
same for tris,if i train them after heavy benching I have to lighten the load…
My question to BIG arms guys is :
“indirect arms stimulus from heavy compound excercises is enough to make your arms bigger??”
[quote]buzza wrote:
I don’t have yet big arms (44cm umpumped/17,33inch,can post pic if you want…),my loads are 115/118kg (255lb)x10 for (very close)close grip press,elbows tucked, (did just this excercise for past 2 years because elbows problems not related to lifting) and 45kg/100lb for barbell curls (very strict form) and do 3 sets RP to failure twice for week,gained almost 2inch since i restarted to train after 15 (fifteen) years of stop but now I’m doing heavy (for me= 110/120kg) reverse barbell rows,I rest for 5/7min and then I do bb curl for biceps,well,my loads on curls went down of about 15% epr same reps number so I see that reverse rows fatigue/stressed bis.
same for tris,if i train them after heavy benching I have to lighten the load…
My question to BIG arms guys is :
“indirect arms stimulus from heavy compound excercises is enough to make your arms bigger??”
thanx in advance.
Mike [/quote]
The answer to your question is yes, but will indirect work make them as big and developed as they possibley can become? No
I think this “I don’t need direct arm work” comes from some authors (books, articles, etc.) who tell beginners to just focus on compounds, to use the energy there, to eat properly and that the grow will happen because compounds target all muscles and etc.
Now, if I was a clueless beginner and I read an expert saying “Focus on compounds” and all what comes with it, will I think I need direct arm work?
I had this line of thought too. Just compounds, almost no isolation since isolation “is not really required for beginners”. I can’t cite any exact author, book or even article right now, but if I adopted this line of thought it’s because what I read was directing me to it. I’m kinda open minded so I found out about my error and added isolation exercices, although most of my time and energy is spent on compounds.
[quote]Teledin wrote:
Used to do lots of it, not so much anymore. One exercise per week for biceps. Triceps get plenty from the compounds I do.[/quote]
I was the same way, it got me to 16.5 quick but then i was stuck there for like a year until i added an arm day and then i blew up an inch in less than six months and continued to make gradual progression until now im at: right arm 19 left arm 18.75
But i wonder, what if i quit isolating the arms now, would i be able to maintain just doing my compound lifts and take a month off of isolating the arms and then add the arms back in and hopefully explode with new growth? Anybody have any thoughts on this?
[quote]Teledin wrote:
Used to do lots of it, not so much anymore. One exercise per week for biceps. Triceps get plenty from the compounds I do.[/quote]
I was the same way, it got me to 16.5 quick but then i was stuck there for like a year until i added an arm day and then i blew up an inch in less than six months and continued to make gradual progression until now im at: right arm 19 left arm 18.75
But i wonder, what if i quit isolating the arms now, would i be able to maintain just doing my compound lifts and take a month off of isolating the arms and then add the arms back in and hopefully explode with new growth? Anybody have any thoughts on this?[/quote]
Interesting topic.
I’m on a 3 week training phase right now where I drop all single joint arm movements and substitute multi-joint movements to train the arms. Triceps: dips, dips, and more dips. Then rope bent arm pulldowns on the cable machine to hit the long head even more. Biceps: weighted close grip chins and weighted close grip pullups. Awesome.
Now, it isn’t the movements per say, but I believe strongly in the often poo-pooed “mind-muscle” link that we used to all read in muscle mags way back when. But it is true, at least for me. For example, I have gotten to the point where I can either primarily hit my lats or my biceps from chins. Same with dips. I can literally do dips and focus on just using as much pecs to move the body, or I can focus to make the triceps due the bulk of the work. Now, of course, you cannot completely isolate, but you definitely can shift focus so that the load is hitting the target muscle.
Almost after every multi-joint arm phase that I’ve done, I’ve made great gains in the arms. Going back to traditional single joint movements is awesome after being away for 3 weeks. The arms get another shock and boost then as well. Love it.
I posted earlier in this thread that some articles talked about the no need of direct arm work. I stumbled into this by checking the links recommended to beginners :
[quote]A Reluctant Addendum
I know what you’re thinking:
“Chad, you forgot to include direct arm work in that program!”
No, I didn’t. The best increases in upper arm hypertrophy are achieved through compound exercises such as dips, chin-ups, bench presses and rows. Therefore, no direct arm work is prescribed in this program.
It’s a strange phenomenon. Every trainee who’s been around the iron game for more than a year knows that big arms are built from compound exercises, but people are still convinced they need direct arm work! So I’ll give you the choice. I don’t recommend the direct upper-arm work option, but I know some people will add direct arm work anyway, so I might as well make sure they do it right.
[/quote]
This is what I meant earlier, this “no direct arm work, rows and chin ups are enough” is in plenty of places…and I’m not talking about eHow or yahoo questions. If I’m a beginner and I’m doing some research, I will find this information too often and follow it.
My opinion probably means nothing here, but I agree with beginners having an emphasis placed on learning the compounds first before delving into all kinds of other isolation. The idea that direct arm work shouldn’t be done at all, however, is misleading.
