T Nation

Non Aromatizer Sides?

Trying to educate myself for a possible return to TRT or Roberts 2 weeks on-4 off cycle. I find Bill Roberts articles extremely informative yet they often do not include some practical information about the various flavors he discusses. What I need y’alls help on is this:

1)As to the non-aromatizing injectable flavors like Tren what are the sides? Poor libido, weak wood, pain, what?

Perhaps the better way for me to ask is:

2)are there any non-aromatizing injectables which do not cause sides?

Well since I have your attention I may as well ask a couple more:

  1. What is the half-life of T suspension? I have seen comments that it is perhaps measured in hours.
  2. Are there any injectables that y’all would recommend avoiding because they are a bitch to inject? I will probably be injecting ED or EOD so I may get real tired of one that hurts like hell!

Need your experience here. Thanks.

First off you mention TRT or a Cycle? Do you mean TRT as in a legally prescribed condition that you have or a funny way of saying a Testosterone cycle?

All steroids cause sides, sorry. TRT levels of testosterone are beneficual, but are you hypogonal?

As far as injectable to avoid. I guess avoid the blends at high mg/ml. People will say avoid testosterone Prop, but if it’s what fits your cycle/goals/etc deal with it.

I guess I really do not understand at all what you are asking other than you want to stick your hand in the kettle and not get burned.

What are your goals? You mention a 2on 4off cycle and then you mention TRT???

Test suspension, or Test No Ester (TNE) has a half life of only a few hours. Most people that use it inject 2x/day.

I have never used it, but I have heard it carries a very painful sting when you inject it. It is water based, so you can probably inject it with a slin pin.

It’s a little too much poking for my taste.

[quote]TheBeat wrote:
First off you mention TRT or a Cycle? Do you mean TRT as in a legally prescribed condition that you have or a funny way of saying a Testosterone cycle?

All steroids cause sides, sorry. TRT levels of testosterone are beneficual, but are you hypogonal?

As far as injectable to avoid. I guess avoid the blends at high mg/ml. People will say avoid testosterone Prop, but if it’s what fits your cycle/goals/etc deal with it.

I guess I really do not understand at all what you are asking other than you want to stick your hand in the kettle and not get burned.

What are your goals? You mention a 2on 4off cycle and then you mention TRT???
[/quote]

I have been researching these short cycles that Bill Roberts advocates as possible substitute for traditional TRT. I posted a thread on that topic here:http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1544513

Got some good responses. The idea is simple- Roberts seems to say that a very quick cycle actually sensitizes the pituitary so that when AAS use is discontinued and the Hypothalmus begins releasing LHSH again the response of the pituitary is even greater than before AAS. Now if you go longer than 2 weeks the pituitary is suppressed. The net effect of this is that one can recover VERY quickly from a shorty cycle especially if one used clomid.

What does this have to do with TRT? Well if your Test is too low to cut fat, muscle up, stay up past the evening news, service your old lady in the manner to which she should be accustomed then it is obvious to see the advantages of juicing 2 weeks out of 6 and enjoying a further 2 weeks of above normal but endogenous Test levels.

That, Gentlemen IS TRT. And payed for at a much smaller cost than the traditional variety, which is total suppression of the HPTA.

Now I have dug through B Rob’s articles and found hints of this, but perhaps the best i have found is his reporting of “Jim’s” T levels taken during one of thses 6 week cycles. The AAS was week 1-2, recovery 3-4, off weeks 5-6. His 5th week T was higher than starting T!! That would seem to form the basis of his remarks that 2weeks od AAS actually sensitezes the Pituitary and activates the hypothalamus ( I confess to not understanding the latter since he also says that the Hyp is suppressed by the s weeks of AAS use).

I hope this explains why i am asking these questions. I am seriously considering one of these cycles to jumpstart my own pathetic endogenous production. I need to learn more about the various AAS available.

With all that said: why do some people avoid T Prop?

[quote]MichaelOH wrote:

I hope this explains why i am asking these questions. I am seriously considering one of these cycles to jumpstart my own pathetic endogenous production. I need to learn more about the various AAS available.

[/quote]

The fact that this might be workable for some [younger] guys does not mean that it is going to work for someone who badly needs TRT. Consider youthful and functioning HPTA vs HPTA that don’t work anymore. Different world.

[quote]KSman wrote:
MichaelOH wrote:

I hope this explains why i am asking these questions. I am seriously considering one of these cycles to jumpstart my own pathetic endogenous production. I need to learn more about the various AAS available.

The fact that this might be workable for some [younger] guys does not mean that it is going to work for someone who badly needs TRT. Consider youthful and functioning HPTA vs HPTA that don’t work anymore. Different world.[/quote]

Yeah, i think there is only one way to find out if an old fossil will also experience this “sensitization” of the Pituitary. I am willing to try that is why i am looking for info on particular flavors of AAS. Need a fast one, dont know if I should use one of the synthetics that doesnt aroamtize or not.

[quote]MichaelOH wrote:

With all that said: why do some people avoid T Prop?

[/quote]

I have heard that that prop is very close chemically to bee venom. Whether that is true or not I truly don’t know. But I will tell you that my own experience is that it damn sure feels like it is close as hell

[quote]1fastford wrote:
MichaelOH wrote:

With all that said: why do some people avoid T Prop?

I have heard that that prop is very close chemically to bee venom. Whether that is true or not I truly don’t know. But I will tell you that my own experience is that it damn sure feels like it is close as hell[/quote]

because they don’t know where to get painless prop (nor do i anymore so don’t ask). so they say its like bee venom. and people get scared away.

i always thought prop was kind of like testosterone, but all the bee venom i’ve injected says otherwise. do i not feel the pain because i am dead inside?