T Nation

Nolvadex: Split Doses Anyone?


#1

Does anybody have experience with split doses?

I take 20mg at approximately 8 in the morning but by 8 at night my nipples are yet again puffy and clearly visible through my shirt by this time. I was wondering if I split the dose into 10mg at 8 A.M. and the same again at about 4 P.M. would it still be an effective total dose for a TRT plan? I suppose every body is different and I would have to just trial run to see if the puff subsides, though, I don't want it to effect the TRT side of the house for some cosmetics.

When I was taking 20mg twice daily I didn't have a problem with the puffiness coming back; but, 40mg daily seems excessive and I've read that it can lead to liver failure (in a study conducted on women).

The only thing I've found on this subject on T-Nation is the half-life of Nolvadex and this wasn't too helpful all things considered.


#2

The problem is E2 would same to be high. Better then to use an AI to deal with the root problem. Not enough info here to get deeper.


#3

I'm taking 0.5mg adex on the day of my shot as well as 3 days later, but I still get puffy nipples with the current dosing of 20mg nolva.


#4

Need your labs, protocol and when were your labs done in your protocol timeline?
Based upon your labs you can dial in your E2 with AI. What I've read 40mg does seem high.

Are you taking Nolvadex orally? If so, what are you taking the "day of your shot"? Are you inj T + taking Nolvadex? Need more information!


#5

Am I doing this wrong? I thought Nolvadex was to complement TRT when taken daily, even if using an AI.

125mg test e/wk administered in 1 dose
20mg Nolvadex/ed
0.5mg anastrozole/e3.5d

No labs taken with an AI added as of yet.


#6

I think you want hCG instead of Nolvadex. I'm a newb, so hopefully @KSman will chime in.


#7

Nolvadex is used to treat gyno symptoms it binds to estrogen receptors but is not an AI.


#8

Inject 62.5mg T twice a week.
Take 0.5mg anastrozole at time of injections
Do labs, ALWAYS, half-way between injections

Your anastrozole dose is too little at first then too much, E2 changing with time and lab results determined by lab timing and of little useful guidance.

10mg/ED Nolvadex may be all you need to create some LH/FSH to preserve the testes and fertility. 20mg/ED may be creating a lot of E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot deal with E2 created there.

I have seen a few reports where SERM's are not protecting breast tissue and nipples from the effects of estrogens. There is a pattern. So not all will get expected results. If you couple that with high fT-->E2 inside the testes, the combo can be a problem.


Stupid Estrogen / Trestolone Oral Question
#9

I can't stress it enough that it can only be 1 shot; it's administered by a health professional as syringes are controlled here.

Would anastrozole 0.5mg taken on the day of the shot and 0.25mg taken 3-3.5 days later be a better solution?

Thank you for the information on Nolvadex though. I will cut down to 10mg.


#10

Yes you will want to split your AI. You would take .5mg on day of shot (or day after) and the other half way through the week if you can't split it more than that.


#11

Worth a try...
Your labs will then be a sample at one point in time. Can you do labs half way between injections?


#12

I'm assuming you mean get my shot on Monday and get labs done on Thursday before (or after) taking 0.25mg anastrozole? That's do-able.


#13

@KSman, I'm really confused.

My E2 sits at 28 and I'm pretty OK with that (to be retested with the new AI dose to see if I can get to 22), but..

I have always had puffy nipples. Always. Nolvadex at 20mg per day in the morning is a cure-all for this. However, some days I find myself having to dose another 20mg at night.

Is it bad to take Nolvadex on a daily basis other than highering E2? I can't seem to find any info. I do know, that, it does lower my cholesterol below my base line though. I would see that this is a good trade-off, no? At higher doses, I see liver failure.

Do you think 10mg in the morning and 10mg at night would do the same as 20mg now? Or is a split dose even worth trying? These pills aren't scored hard to cut.


#14

Bro, you can't use Nolvadex And Adex together. Nolvadex reduces the concentration of Adex in your blood. If you want to run an AI with Nolva, Aromasin is the better option (12.5 mg EOD). However - regarding your situation 1) you can split the dose but there is no point. The half life of Nolva is 6 days so there will be plenty in your system no matter when you take it 2) Nolva alone is great for preventing and/or reversing Gyno if you catch it early enough. As other posters here have said,we need blood work results to see how things are going 3) I would never run a SERM (I.e Nolvadex or Clomid) with TRT. The better option is to kill the Estro or stop it from Aromatizing in the first place (which is what Aromasin and Adex do respectively).

So, back to your case - keep up the Nolva and you can go 40mg for a week or so until things settle then go 20 mg. typically from what I've seen with guys running lots of gear - Nolva at that dose usually knocks out Gyno. Get some aromasin if you can - it's not going to hurt to use the Adex but as I mentioned Nolva reduces its effectiveness. Also, get labs and post back.


#15

Last labs were E2=28, but even when E2 didn't even register (pre-TRT), I had puffy nipples. I don't know if this is "gyno" or what they call pseudo-gyno... but I do know 20mg Nolva makes my nipples flatter and more erect (what I would call more normal looking). Without it, they've always been puffy, even before TRT.


#16

By all means, use a SERM+anastrozole.

Try to get E2 lower and see what happens.

SERM blocks some of the effects of E2 in selected tissues, anastrozole reduces overall E2 exposure.

It is important to not loose sight of the fact that prolactin can be part of problems of this nature.

Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methyltestosterone
And orals can cause liver problems that increase E2.
Orals like this have been abandoned by everyone who is well informed.

This is always bad practice: "I will increase the AI to E2D if the bloat gets too out of hand"
E2 needs to be managed better than that.


#17

E2 wasn't even registering (<0) pre-TRT and I still had puffy nipples. Someone did comment that my prolactin was high at the time, I can't find the labs now, but it was above 1. Could prolactin have always been the cause?

So I see you cross your t's and dot your i's... in both sections. Which is good, you have the biggest picture. I'm however now bridging into another oral. But, orals are only temporary in cycles.

That's why I'm reluctant to get blood work now as T will be sky high and E2 may as well, but, if you notice, I made this thread prior to any cycling of anything.

My puffy nipples are only cured by Nolvadex. But, I've had E2 of 0 (pre-), (post-) 44, 76, and 28. In all ranges, they've been puffy without Nolvadex in the morning.

Can it be something else? Would pictures better illustrate to see if this is true gyno, psuedo-gyno, or just totally something else?

Thank you!


#18

You are doing so many things that may make my TRT knowledge inapplicable.