T Nation

Nolvadex HPTA Restart

I want to try and run a HPTA restart protocol. I don’t want to use any Ai. I am planning to do 6-8 weeks with 10mg daily. My question is if I need to taper off and if yes how and furthermore would it be better to do 20mg e2days or 10mg ed because maybe a higher dose at once will create higher peaks which is better or should I just stay with 10mg ed?
Thanks in advance

What have you been taking that requires you to do a restart? This is important to know before making a suggestion on what a restart should entail for you.

Why are thinking 10 a day? Standard PCT is 40/day for 2 weeks and then 20/day four 4 weeks.

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I have extreme symptoms of low t you can see my full story here: 19 Y/O Thinking About TRT

Nothing that I took which could have shut down my production. I don’t want to do PCT but a complete restart and from KSman posts I got the 20mg e2d

I thought before I start administering TRT myself as no doc want to treat me I will try restarting my axis before commiting to TRT for life at age 19

IncreaseMyT will treat you if you really are hypogonadal, can you post lab work for me?

Usually when men have really low T at your age and it is not from AAS, it means you are either primary, had a head injury or you are suffering from idiopathic hypogonadism. This just means you never fully developed.

With no AAS use and with your age, unfortunately I doubt a round of tamox will work for you. Tamox is good at stimulating LH, but not very good at stimulating FSH.

Anyways, give me some more history and I may be about to point you in the right direction.

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I would appreciate every help! Check my link out from earlier post please where you can read my full story and have all my labs. Would highly appreciate it

I agree with this statement, having these problems this early in life means something is wrong and naturally produced testosterone in sufficient quantities isn’t possible.

You need TRT dude, this restart will only see levels return to baseline levels unless the underlying cause is addressed.

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I think you misunderstand what PCT is. It is a Post Cycle restart, it’s what guys do after comlete shut-down from a cycle. That is essentially what you want to attempt. However, @increasemyt is giving you some sound advice. It is important to know exactly what the problem is. And that 10mg/day or 20mg EOD of Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) is not going to kick it in gear for you. That’s more of a gyno avoidance dose.

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Thank you for tuning in. Can tamox harm me in any significant way? Does speak anything against it except wasting money (i already bought it) and I would like to try everything before really commiting to TRT for life at this young age. You can also take a look at history and labs in the post linked before

Everything can harm you, but Tamox is considered the safer alternative for this, it has less sides and issues than Clomid. Your other thread shows an increase in SHBG over time. So, even though that last blood test showed a higher total T level at 509, the indication is that you are overall deficient. Consistent low T drives up SHBG. You have something failing, and the fact that your LH was elevated (But not out of range) points towards primary hypogonadism. But there are plenty of other possibilities, and you should see an endocrinologist or urologist.

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Well after looking at the info, long thread so I may have missed some stuff, I personally would not suspect primary, head injury or a micro prolactinoma. But keep in mind we are on a forum so this is hypothetical, for educational purposes, we suggest that if you do anything you do it under the supervision of a licensed physician.

I say no tumor because your PRL is fine. Usually when that is the issue, PRL will be 5-20x the range. Like crazy high.

I say no primary or head injury because your hormones are not low enough, usually when this is the case we see rock bottom numbers, some of the lowest I have ever seen. For instance, one guy crashed his motorcycle and hit his testes really hard on the gas tank and he became primary hypogonadal.

So this is pushing me towards idiopathic hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, or you never fully developed. But if this is the case there should be signs, like not a lot of hair growth, under developed vocal cords and muscular stature.

For this type of hypogonadism surprisingly what can help is a round of testosterone administration, 10% of those studied actually regained normal function after like 6 months of T. Maybe it stimulates the receptors and gives things a jumpstart, I don’t know but here is the study:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa066494

There is a newer study that adds to that and it does talk about restarts helping, but I would bet that is more because of HCG and less about SERM’s

So I would ask myself what was my puberty like? Did I fully develop like others my age? Or do I seem underdeveloped, if not I am not sure this is the case, because that is the #1 symptom.

It could just be that your diet exercise everything sucks, but I don’t know your history :slight_smile: So convince me that is not it.

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I’ve been to numerous endos and urologists but nobody seemed to care or want to help me. Endos don’t continue treating me because Test is in range. Urologist scanned my testes already twice and said everything is fine. I am only missing a MRI from my brain and then I think I have done everything before I can finally jump on TRT…?

Is that something similar to Klinefelter syndrome?
Well to be honest my nutrition and training were always on point and in general I was always very into bodybuilding so I read for hours and hours daily until I would consider myself very knowledgeable and it sure paid off. I was able to put on a lot of mass and became very strong. With 16 I would say U was already on a good way to become a very good athlete as I was always more athletic and had much more muscles than my peers but eventually my t started to decrease and I started lacking off.
Nevertheless I think I was fairly developed even though in comparison to others I don’t have a that derp voice and absolutely no stomach or chest hair maybe thats an indicator for that idiopathic hypogonadism. The picture attached is my transformation from probably 13-16 years old.

Nevertheless whatever it is I have it causes me to have low T so regardless of what it is I still have to do TRT asap right?

Well remember take this with a grain of salt, I do not think you are suffering from idiopathic hypogonadism and now with more history I suspect your T is just low from working out really hard. Don’t be so focused on the numbers, based on your progress alone your hormones are definitely working.

It could be simply the labs are being taken too close to rigorous workouts and that is why your T is low. I bet if you stopped all exercise for 2 weeks before testing you would get a better result.

In a scenario like this, something you could do with little risk to your HPTA function and might actually boost it is a round of growth hormone peptides. This will increase the effectiveness of what T you have, and may give your HPTA some relief by helping with recovery.

Just my 2 cents.

You need a doctor that considers the larger clinical picture considering the numbers and the symptoms. So unless you score in the ranges of an old man you’re not getting TRT through state healthcare, private clinics is your only option.

Well the progess was in the past. I’ve been stagnating for the past 2 years and that’s exactly when I started getting all sorts of sexual problems aswell probably even a year earlier. The labs were taken days apart from excercise and I currently am not even able to train more like 2 times a week because I am just to week and too unmotivated.
I don’t focus at my labs at all since they look alright except of my free t and high shbg but I just focus at my symptoms which are slowly killing me. It’s not like I tested severely low and thats the problem nobody will treat me because I seem normal but my symptoms say something completely different!! :confused:

@systemlord what do you think about balancemyhormones in the Uk they seem fairly good and seem like my last option

Pct is a back to baseline. They use aas that slows natural production. They kick start the body but giving it a jolt of electricity and hope it helps. It does not fix nor does it work every time for AAS users.

I suggest finding a legitimate doctor who can help further. You might need trt at 19, but first exhaust all logical options.

A big one is lifestyle. How did you spend child hood. Gym sports or sitting in a chair droning our on wow or any games.

Diet. How did you eat from child hood until high school. Real or fast and junk?

Many are having issues due to lifestyle during puberty. To much edc can cause the body to stop.

There’s more to look at. But that’s one way.

They are your best option in your country. Go look up Steven Devi’s hot channel on YouTube he has a video about how to get trt in Europe.

You don’t need trt. You want a detective. Hard to find there.

If you do try trt I would dabble in HCG and cream.

I hope you figure this out.

You sure you don’t have any history of drug abuse outside of aas. What about ssri?

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My lifestyle was great in comparison to others my age, no drinking no smoking just healthy diet and 5-6 times working out a week. I felt great…
Absolutely no drug abuse and no ssri. I am planning on having kids in the future but I thought as long as I don’t want kids right away I can just leave the HCG aside if I have no problems with shrinking testicles. Only when I decide to have kids which wouldn’t be in the next 5 years I would need to use HCG for a few months prior in orde to become fertile again… am I mistaken?

I think they don’t compound cream in Germany even though I would love to be on creme rather than injections but I have no choice except BMH.
I think I will definitely go down the route of TRT, I almost did everything… scan of my testicles, several blood labs, I am just missing a MRI even though it won’t show anything most likely otherwise I would already have bad blood work in terms of a tumor or something similar just like increasemyt said.

Should I check for something else and if yes what exactly before going down that route since it most likely would be a commitment for life… at this point i dont even care anymore tho absolutely no life quality and no sex life for the past 2 years…

I would cycle the HCG a couple of times a year if I was you, just in case.

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